In the most recent Digital Insurance survey, insurance carriers and brokers were asked, "What macroeconomic and external factors have the biggest impact on the direction and/or targeted goals of your organization's digital strategy?" the most popular answer was "staffing challenges" -- 67% said this was their toughest issue. Nearly 400,000 employees are expected to retire from the insurance industry workforce within the next few years, according to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics. And it's hard to bring in young workers. A Valen Analytics study found that 44 percent of millennials do not find a career in insurance interesting. In this Transformation Forum, Carrie Martinelli, vice president of talent at Selective Insurance, will explain some of the efforts she makes to recruit and motivate young workers.
Transcription:
Penny Crosman (00:00):
Hello. Welcome everybody. I am Penny Crosman, interim editor of Digital Insurance, and I'm here with Carrie Martinelli, who is head of Talent at Selective Insurance. Welcome Carrie.
Carrie Martinelli (00:14):
Thank you for having me. I am excited about our conversation today.
Penny Crosman (00:18):
Yes, thanks for coming. So the talent shortage in insurance has been a huge topic and concern for our readers for some time. We did a survey earlier this year and the number one challenge of the tech executives that we surveyed was staffing challenges and especially finding the right data scientists and programmers. Our readers said it was the number one factor impacting the direction of their digital strategies.
(00:58)
About 400,000 employees are expected to retire from the insurance industry workforce over the next few years, according to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics. And it's an overall challenge to find young workers. A Valen Analytics study recently found that 44% of millennials do not find a career in insurance interesting. Meanwhile, a lot of insurance companies have a need. They have backlogs of claims that need to be processed because of all the catastrophes that have happened in recent years. They need data scientists to better assess the risks going forward. So with all this talk about the talent shortage, Carrie, what are you seeing both in the industry and in your own company, your own experience?
Carrie Martinelli (01:53):
The talent shortage, it's a term that we've been hearing for years and I think depending on the way of the world, what's happening, economic conditions, what's happening just around us, talent shortage just means different things. So right now, coming off the heels of a pandemic, there are many, many people in the workforce that had a change in perspective. Their needs are different. What they want out of life is different. Where they see their future might be different. So when I think of talent shortage today, I think that, like you said with the statistic around the Department of Labor, there are many, many people, especially in the next 15 years that plan to retire that are in the insurance industry. We have a lot of people that maybe have changed direction. So when I think talent shortage, I think there's less people entering the workforce, especially in this industry than there are exiting.
(02:51)
We look at it as a way to engage early career talent in a few different ways, select them and then retain them, which will be part of our discussion today. But it's certainly something that will remain front and center for us and for all. Insurance is definitely not the number one stop on the list of industries that someone coming right out of an academic environment wants to jump into. But it certainly has its rewards. So I think talent shortage is something that we'll just continue to hear about and talk about ways in which we can combat it.
Penny Crosman (03:28):
And why do you think insurance is not the number one destination these days? And is there something the industry as a whole could be doing or thinking about to make itself more appealing?
Carrie Martinelli (03:41):
I believe, and this is me, I believe that insurance is a very rewarding place to land. Unfortunately with big tech companies or other organizations that maybe have more of an allure from a surface level innovation setting, it is not that it's being promoted as openly, but from an insurance industry, we help rebuild people's lives and what could be more rewarding, no matter what role you have, whether it be in it, whether you're in claims marketing, underwriting, you are taking part in something that helps someone or helps a small business. So it is quite rewarding. Studies that I've read about in various articles when I do my morning kind of review of what's out there, a lot of big tech companies are not necessarily the top stop anymore because many of the early career talent are seeking places where they have a sense of belonging and where they can most likely enhance their skillset, where they can learn. So I think insurance, I'm newer to the insurance space over the last couple of years, but I've been in financial services for most of my career, and insurance is a place that as a customer, you're learning about what's going to be rewarding for you and then as an employee you're learning how you're adding value to the organization and to the overall industry.
Penny Crosman (05:17):
Alright, well you've made a good case for it. And when you think about the talent shortage, are you seeing it as especially challenging in the technology area? So the programmers, data scientists, project managers, that sort of position?
Carrie Martinelli (05:36):
We do see challenge in finding talent in those spaces. It's always been, I'll say, hard to find talent specifically in those roles. It's a very competitive environment. The last few years have proved and provided an even more competitive landscape for attracting that talent. But there's certainly things that we offer here at Selective that help us to bring talent in and then the challenge becomes retaining and maintaining that relationship that we've built with those individuals that we bring in. But I think it's always going to be hard just because of the skills that these individuals are bringing to the table in this ever-evolving transformative environment and then matching that with what they can learn from individuals that have been in the industry for quite some time.
Penny Crosman (06:32):
So what are some of the things that you've been doing at Selective to try to attract younger workers?
Carrie Martinelli (06:38):
We have a couple of different programs here at Selective that I would say are shining stars for us. So we do have an internship program called Ignite, which we just completed last week. So we had our interns here for about 11 weeks and we have interns that are part of the IT function, and then a few others sprinkled throughout the organization, but we had about 50 interns this past year. We continue to provide experiences for them that allow them not just to do work. When I talk to the interns and I regroup with them and I find out how it's going, they all say to me that they love the fact that they're in a supportive environment with different people, that they're learning the industry, they're learning the space that they're specifically in day to day and they don't feel like they're just there to do a task.
(07:37)
They feel like they're there to learn, which means we're providing them very enriching experiences, giving them exposure to various senior leadership and executives, providing them with various leadership trainings or assessments that we'll put them through. And most importantly, allowing them to be social, whether it be virtual or in person. We also have early career programs that are our trainee programs in the IT space as well as underwriting and corporate. So that's a longer program for individuals that are coming out of college or universities and that they can do full-time, but they take 11 months and they learn all they need to learn about the industry. And we provide that, like I said, in all of the different functions. And in addition to that, we have various programs within the organization that when someone does come in, we have employee resource groups, we have different mentoring programs. We try to deliver a sense of who we are from a culture perspective every day to those individuals. So we'll capture them when they learn about Selective and then carry it forward as we pull through. And that's important based on our principles and our values.
Penny Crosman (08:59):
And do a certain percentage or a certain number of your interns actually come back and work for you later?
Carrie Martinelli (09:06):
They do. So it's interesting. When I joined the organization, I met so many different people and their story went like this. Well, six or seven years ago, I was an intern here. Then I came back after school and I went into the trainee program and now I'm at my second role within the organization. And the more and more people that I've put inside my network here, the more and more I went, this is an amazing return. And every single one of those individuals that I've spoken to was so engaged but was well-rounded. So we have a significant conversion of interns that return the next year. So if you have a rising junior who then becomes a rising senior, we have interns that we offer roles to for the trainee program. So after they are interns with us, they graduate college, they have positions that they can come back to as a trainee, which is when they go into that 11-month program. And then at the end of that 11-month program, depending on the function or their expertise that they choose, they then move into an underwriting role or an IT role or a marketing role. So it depends, but we do have, I don't have the numbers off the top of my head, but it is part of our culture when you think of just growth and early career programming.
Penny Crosman (10:35):
So putting that extra effort into the intern program actually becomes a recruiting effort over time and hiring. And what about people who haven't come to you as an intern or a trainee? How do you reach out to the Gen Z population, and what do you think are some of the best channels to find them? Are you going on social media? Are you going to the metaverse? Are you going to community events? Are you going to colleges? What are some of your outreach?
Carrie Martinelli (11:14):
So I was definitely hoping you would ask me that question. We'll see if I have any nuggets of gold that could be helpful for others. So understanding what your talent strategy is is critically important to understand where to go to attract and look for that talent. We know that Gen Z is very savvy. Gen Z grew up in an all-digital environment. So you and I may use our mobile devices to text someone or make a phone call. Gen Z turns to their mobile device to capture and gather data, then they will use it to FaceTime you. So we know that they're very savvy. We also know that a way to connect with them is to use various platforms or websites that are part of their college rotations. So there's a lot of websites that many of the colleges will use for job postings and opportunities.
(12:16)
We will use very traditional routes here at Selective. So we do partner with LinkedIn where we post those jobs, because much of what we do at Selective, in fact all of what we do is that human touch, that relationship-driven philosophy. We continue to focus on how we build relationships with any candidates at any level. But let's specifically focus on the early career side. We connect with colleges and universities throughout our footprint. So we are here as I am today in Branchville, New Jersey. There may be local colleges in the Pennsylvania, New Jersey area that we work very closely with. Then if we're in another footprint such as across the nation, we'll partner regionally with a lot of the colleges and universities there. That could be through their virtual presentations, their career fairs, whatever that may be. We obviously partner with RMI schools or schools that carry the risk management insurance curriculum so that we are tapping into a group of people that know a little bit about insurance and then it's our job to give them even more information.
(13:31)
We work very closely with a lot of the business organizations within a school. So if some of the institutions or colleges that we partner with have an actuarial science club or group or have an insurance network kind of industry type of opportunity, we'll partner with them to bring alumni to them, share experiences with them and really capture that audience. So that's one part of what we do. Also, the power of referrals is very critical. So when you're reaching out to the colleges and universities, or we have our interns or trainees that have gone through the program and we have our current employee population, we make sure that we're telling them about what we offer from a career opportunity perspective so that we can share in any referrals that they may have. And then another area in addition to what I'll just say is traditional is we work closely with various local groups. So we have Gamma Iota Sigma, which many may be familiar with. We work very closely with them over the last few years to have a college competition where there are RMI students that basically simulate an insurance agency and we have our agency partners that mentor and work with the students. And it helps us to just liven up that interest in the insurance space and whether they work for Selective or they work for another organization, they are more aware of what insurance can provide and it helps our agency partners and it helps our industry overall. Now, those are a lot of the external things that we do once an individual is with us and then also kind of connected to the community outreach. We have employee resource groups. So our employee resource groups will spend their times on the weekends or after hours out in the community and they meet people.
(15:38)
And by meeting people, they're building a better network, which then continues to drive people to Selective. And the last thing that I'll mention that is a very big part of our culture and who we are when it comes to attracting early career talent. We actually have the good old fashioned career fair or open house as we call it, once a year. And we invite a lot of the early career individuals or students that we've connected with throughout the year to campus, and we invite them to meet with some of the managers so that they can truly understand what a day in the life would be like for them if they choose Selective.
Penny Crosman (16:16):
And have you seen any differences among Gen Z versus earlier generations of Gen X, millennials, et cetera, in terms of their values and what they're really looking for? Are they money driven, are they mission driven? What do you find they're looking for?
Carrie Martinelli (16:51):
I spent some time over the last couple of weeks with the interns as they were wrapping up. I wanted to understand, we all read publications, we read different articles, we hear different stories and you'll hear different things. And I think sometimes Gen Z, millennial, I think a lot of things get lumped together over time and generalized. But for Gen Z and what we've been hearing from them is most certainly stability in an organization, thinking of the uncertain times, what's going on in the environment. You hear companies that are making significant changes. So stability is important to them. Opportunity to learn new skills. I want to go to an organization where they're going to train me, develop me, and invest in me to learn a new skill, whatever that may be.
(17:53)
Career pathing. It continues to be from my conversations with a lot of the individuals that we have here, career pathing, what is a career path for me? I don't need it tomorrow, but I'm going to need it soon. So what is that career path for me? And then on top of that, of course, benefits are important and I think we have an opportunity as employers to provide a lot more financial and health wellbeing to early career talent or Gen Z that come into the workforce to educate them, okay, here's what it means now and here's what it's going to mean for your future. So based on my conversations and what I've been hearing about, those are the things that seem to be important. Compensation of course will always be important. Individuals want to be able to pay for nice things and pay their rent. But those are the things in addition to what is I'll consider a regular compensation package, those are the things that they're looking for.
(18:55)
What I will say that differentiates Selective in those conversations is many of our Gen Z or newer talent likes what we offer by way of volunteerism. So spending time with the community and helping out others is a big part of who we are and being able to spend time, we give time for people who want to go out and volunteer. And then we also do a lot of team building and collaborative exercises where our interns, our trainees or any of our employees for that matter can go out and be a part of it. And that's also that social good aspect that we hear about from Gen Z. That aspect of offering to someone is also part of what they're looking for.
Penny Crosman (19:42):
That makes sense. It's interesting that stability was the first thing you said, and I wonder if for some of these younger people, their parents might've been affected by the financial crisis of 2008, and then maybe they were that kind of shook them out of any sort of sense of security that they had or something. But that's very curious because I've also heard people compare this generation to depression babies or people born during the depression because of that idea that at a very young age they experienced a financial crisis. So it kind of fits with that theory I think.
(20:25)
So people talk about quiet, quitting and more recently I've heard the term grumpy staying, which I think is the same thing. It's kind of like younger people deciding they're just going to do the minimum, they're not going to go the extra mile, and this is just sort of their way of coping with the workforce. Do you see any of this and is there anything that companies like yours can do to help motivate people or is it matter of not hiring people who have that kind of mindset?
Carrie Martinelli (21:06):
So it's interesting. I still remember the day that the term quiet quitting came up in my business setting. And I thought to myself, well, that's not something new. It's just a new way to coin disengagement. And then we talked a bit about the grumpy work aspect, which once again, it's disengagement and I think a lot of the social media channels help bring these terms to life, which makes it somewhat humorous but also realistic because like you said, there are individuals that are begrudgingly working and doing what they need to do. While I am sure that there are individuals in every organization like that from a newer talent perspective, I will say that every single person that I talked to that comes into Selective tells us that everybody's super helpful, helpful from being able to find the cafeteria to helping them log onto something or understanding who to go to.
(22:11)
So I think when it comes to early career talent, I'm sure there's people that wake up and have a bad day and want to be a little grumpy that day, but holistically, when we think about our culture, we thrive by helping each other. So it's not something so much that we see. We have a very engaged workforce. We survey on an annual basis and we also do pulse checks when we have town halls or different events that we run or strategy meetings just to understand what could we do better, which we feel and I believe will help kind of combat those disengagements. We all know though, at the end of the day, we can't satisfy everyone, but we can only try and offer everything that we can to make sure it's a meaningful experience for every employee.
Penny Crosman (23:00):
Yes, that makes sense. The other term I've heard recently is lazy girl jobs. This idea that young people want just some lazy girl jobs so they can, I don't know what, but I would imagine some of it would be in the interviewing process, you can kind of suss out a little bit of that kind of attitude. Somebody just wants a place to park and look at Twitter all day or something versus having more of a can-do kind of spirit kind of thing. And you talked a little bit about bringing young people along, making them feel welcome, making feel like they're part of something bigger. Are you doing anything special that you haven't already mentioned along those lines? And in terms of retaining people, if you're getting people who are 22, how do you interest them in staying for 20 years? And are you even interested in keeping people that long?
Carrie Martinelli (24:10):
Very interesting question, and as I think about how to answer it, I would say that there's a lot to that we don't even know yet because we have many people that have been a part of Selective with very long tenures, and we have a few people that do choose to leave from a retirement perspective and then will return for a brief period of time. But if I think about a trainee or an intern that maybe was with us six or seven years, as long as there's opportunity for them to continue to grow and we are keeping the dialogue open and like I said, learning new skills, we can continue to retain them. I think there's forces around them as they start their lives, as they start to build different relationships or start different chapters in their journeys. I'm sure that could sway if they want to stay long-term with an organization.
(25:15)
I don't necessarily know if we know long-term how that's going to play out with this current generation. I've been very fortunate over my entire career to work very closely with individuals that are just starting out and as they navigate life, that's when I notice the most questions come up about, do I want to stay here? Do I want to move into something else? And while I would love to retain everyone, there's also a lot to be said about spreading your wings to fly and learning a little bit more and coming back. And many organizations have different appetites for that on whether or not they allow an individual to come back. But I think it's a personal decision, but I think there's still a lot left out there for us to see with this current generation that's entering the workforce and how that plays out.
Penny Crosman (26:11):
And one thing I was thinking about as you were talking was to what extent is workplace flexibility becoming more of a factor both in recruiting and retaining, and is that something you've been playing with?
Carrie Martinelli (26:26):
Yes. We offer a hybrid environment here at Selective and in the industry, we've always had jobs that have been remote in nature just based on what we do day in and day out. We offer the flexibility to be hybrid. We offer it in our internships, we offer it specifically to all of our employees. It's important, but the flexibility is more important. It's more important to be able to do your job and get it done. I will tell you that a lot of the newer talent that's coming into the organization being at home, that social interaction isn't as robust. They enjoy coming in. There's a lot of individuals that enjoy coming in. So it's as long as there's that balance. Now that being said, we also are very intentional with how we engage our virtual environment. So if we have a town hall or we have various presentations, we offer it in both the hybrid and in person when we can.
(27:31)
Sometimes we'll do it all virtual just so that no one feels left out, but it appeals to the introverts and the extroverts or the individuals that need that social interaction that want to come in. There is a lot to be said though about what you can learn, but we also understand that it can't be a one size fits all, but most definitely to your question, it's the flexibility of the environment. It's less about, no, no, no, I only want a hundred percent remote. Now it's more of sure I can come in, when am I allowed to come in? When can I come in? Do I have a space? And providing that type of environment that I think is the most important for them right now.
Penny Crosman (28:10):
Sure, that makes sense. Well, this has been really interesting and unfortunately we're out of time. But Carrie Martinelli, thank you so much for joining us today and thank you all for joining us and I hope you enjoyed our session and I hope you have a great rest of your day.
