- In order to win in an increasingly competitive market, the partnership between agent, carrier, and customer will lean heavily on improved technological workflows and processes for all to work more efficiently.
- Successful integration of digitalization requires collaboration with dedicated resources so all users can leverage their tools effectively.
- The rate of innovation is happening faster than organizations can educate users on how to make the best use of their new products and services. The secret sauce for successful growth will strike the right balance of technology, human interaction, efficient workflow and education.
Panel Member (00:10):
We are on our last panel before we go into the exhibit hall and meet some of our DIGIN experts and have some wine. Our next panel please, please go ahead. Thank you. Our next panel is on how to evolve digitally while elevating the agent experience. Donald, please take it away.
Donald Light (00:44):
Okay, well welcome everyone. I am Donald Light. I am going to introduce myself first and I will ask our two panelists to introduce themselves. We work for Celent. We are a advisory firm. We give research and advisory services and consulting on how insurance companies can use technology. So we work with insurance companies and technology firms primarily. We have two great panelists with us and immediately to my right is Karina Szymanski, and Karina, if you could just introduce yourself, guy, name, title, serial. You do not have to do serial number, but what you do and how you do it.
Karina Szymanski (01:23):
Good afternoon everybody. My name is Karina Szymanski. Thank you for pronouncing it perfectly. That is a very rare thing. I am Chief Customer Officer for Bold Penguin, which is a commercial lines Insurtech company that powers insurance carriers who want to distribute their products to independent agents. So We are very focused on the independent agent channel and how to help them do everything from by prospects to quote and buying online for their customers to leveraged analytics to be more efficient with running their agency operations.
Donald Light (01:57):
Great. Our other panelist is Kasey Ketcham and Kasey, you would introduce yourself.
Kasey Ketcham (02:01):
Thank you. Donald Kasey Ketchum with Nationwide Insurance, fortune 100 company providing financial and insurance services and products to the market for both personal lines, commercial lines, standard and non-standard. I have the pleasure of leading what we refer to at Nationwide as the commercial enablement team focused on commercial standard commercial quick to sudden or quickly exploring the non-standard space as well. And what do we mean by digital enablement? It is really API enabling those products and services and placing where our agents, independent agents and our business owners want to engage.
Donald Light (02:34):
Okay, great. Thank you. I am going to provide a bit of a context for our session or conversation. There are really from a selling and we have done a lot of work on Distribution Technology, the Intersection of them. If you are going to develop a technology strategy, there are really four dimensions to building a better digital agent experience. First is strategy, which is essentially how to get from here where we are today and where you want to go in terms of digital digitization capabilities in terms of improving the agent experience. The second dimension is technology, essentially technology, we see it as an enabler of strategy. It only makes sense if It is going to make you go further faster in achieving those strategic objectives. Third dimension is process. That is as companies look at new channels, new platforms, new exchanges, new ways of working with agents, internal processes have to change.
(03:44)
Sometimes that is pretty straightforward, sometimes It is less straightforward, but you have to pay attention to that. You have to plan for it and execute it. And the last dimension is organizational organization and culture. Every company has a culture. We having just been through Covid, I think we have gotten a finer appreciation of what it means to maintain and maybe modify in some ways company's culture. So again, as you are using new technology, new processes, you have to make sure that people in your internal staff understand why you are doing it and are willing and able to make those changes. So going to turn to our panelists to first give us an overview of why we should focus on customer experience. So Kasey, if you would like to lead off and maybe Karina can contribute as well. Sure.
Kasey Ketcham (04:38):
So I thought this was a great catalyst to the conversation today. This stems from a recent CX Forester study from 21 and then 22. And it struck me as the basis of why we do what we do at Nationwide. And I think what Bull Penguin does as well, but those organizations that create focus and priority around crafting the best possible experiences for their agents, for their customers, clients, etcetera, realize two X revenue growth and profit growth over their competitors who do not prioritize in that manner. Additionally, they experience two X employment, employee engagement and customer retention. For me it makes sense, I think it feels very symbiotic as well. If employees are happy, they have the tools, the resources, the processes, and they are empowered to solve the problem, that creates a great customer experience, thus retaining that customer driving greater revenue and profit as well. And for my team, the digital enablement team, we are constantly seeking out customer feedback loops to inform us where we are not creating great experiences and then we target that and deploy new products and solutions. So I don't know, Karina if it is a catalyst or a driver for what you guys do as well.
Karina Szymanski (06:01):
Yeah, I think That is right. And one of the things items on here That is somewhat unique is to talk about employee engagement. And one of the things we think about is clearly we are all very sensitive to cost pressure right now and it is much more costly to have to acquire new employees than to retain the employees you have and to make sure you are taking out tedious work by adding in some digital options to enhance the human experience. And so by blending that digital, the technology pieces with the human interactions, you remove some of the wasteful time that employees are typically left to deal with, which enhancing job satisfaction is never a bad thing and not only help the employees be more productive, but to retain them so you do not have that tax of constantly being in a hiring loop.
Kasey Ketcham (06:54):
I think to highlight that, a recent study from Edelman came out, it was surveying a number of independent agents over the last six months, 51% were looking at expense reduction measures and then the next six months, another 27% looking at expense reduction measures. I think you juxtaposed that in the same study illustrated that one third had just hired new employees over the last six months and another third plan to in the next six months. You can not sustain lower expenses when you are constantly hiring. And so I think It is technology that becomes critical, a critical enabler then to success.
Donald Light (07:34):
Okay, great. What I would like to ask Karina next is why is focus on a customer kind of the right focus, the right strategy at this time?
Karina Szymanski (07:43):
I think some of what Kasey was just explaining really touched on it really well. And in the Covid era we really did see customers expectations heighten. And it is not heightened in the way that customers are now expecting. You either have one option to shop, but optionality has become really important. So we want to make sure that we are delivering experiences to customers that have met their growing needs and to staff. And so for example, customers now maybe want to do some of their own work and the insurance shopping experience and we want to make sure we power some self-serve portals and ability for them to do some parts of their own onboarding and even answer some of their own questions with chat functionalities and using AI to resolve some of these routine questions that you do not necessarily need your highest skilled talent to spend their time and energy on.
(08:41)
And so what we are seeing is with those heightened expectations, we are at that time now where we need to meet customer's demand and not say you have one option to shop or another, but we want to make sure there is that optionality. And if they choose to shop online and do some of the background and research on their own, great, but we want to make sure there is a human available if they do need that sort of conciliary report support and they need a counselor to help them with their coverages. And one of the things Kasey was hitting on to emphasize is this cost pressure right now because not only is it more costly to be regularly training and hiring new staff and getting them up to speed, but the same goes for customer basis. So acquiring new customers is much more costly than retaining your customers. And so the time right now is to help agents meet where they are right now and help them contain costs by delivering some technology to remove some of this redundant and manual work.
Donald Light (09:42):
So Karina, let me ask you a follow up. So at Bold Penguin, every technology firm, I know you have got a roadmap, right? They are pushing out 12, maybe even 24 months, but then how often do you change a roadmap? And were some of the things you just talked about increasing optionality, chat functions and so on, was that kind of dropped in to roadmaps? They do change as outside conditions change. You give us a little bit of an insight as to how that worked.
Karina Szymanski (10:07):
Yeah, that is a great question, you are right. Most technical companies, we always want to have a transformational mindset. So we do have a roadmap that gets us where we want to be five years from now and we are constantly plugging away towards it. And an example, Kasey, you and I talk about all the time is how to create the right insurance buying experience with sort of a shopping cart where you can not only multiple carriers, but you can purchase your coverages the way you need to and have some coverage suggestion tools. So that is an effort. That is an ongoing effort that is always going to be a priority and we are plugging away at it, but we do have to be flexible so when the environment changes as it has in recent times to be able to adapt to some of these trends, we are seeing where chat can be emphasized. And we did speed up and accelerate our work with artificial intelligence just because we knew that the time came quicker than we may have expected. So where it may have been maybe on the one year horizon we were able to quickly draw it in because we had the wherewithal. We just now had the momentum created by the demand of the customer base.
Donald Light (11:19):
Okay, thank you. Next question I would like to ask Kasey is that we talk a lot about customer experience and our context here in this session agent experience, but that that is a very broad term. So are there major, from a Nationwide point of view, are there major types of a types of agents? Do you segment them in some way and if so, how does that affect the things you are going to do your agenda for improving the maybe agents, different types of agents experiences?
Kasey Ketcham (11:50):
Sure. I think it is important to create your mechanism or feedback loop so you can understand your agent experiences better and then perhaps segment those agents and identify what is needed, the capability solutions, etcetera. I think having mechanisms internally, mechanisms externally. So internally it is your core KPIs. What are the data sets that you can extract insights from externally? It is those market surveys like a JD Power, a customer enthusiasm survey. You have your quantitative and qualitative. In fact, Karina and I were just on an agency council together collecting some of that feedback. One of the things that came up in that really stuck with me was they are, they do not call their producers producers, they refer to them as risk placement advisors and or consultants. And that kind of stuck a little bit with me and kind of walking through how we as a carrier can highlight their expertise and to that end, how do we provide the right services and products to augment that experience?
(12:58)
Some folks internally call that the bionic experience. We elevate their expertise by creating the right capabilities so they do not have to be weighted down with data entry five times in multiple systems or know that they need to add this product or that product based on the risk attributes. And so identifying those opportunities for solutions is critical through that feedback loop. From a segmentation perspective, we certainly have larger agents who bring us more business and those that do not, right? And I think any carrier would say that, but at its heart they are all risk management advisors and I think they all want to be augmented such that expertise. So I think much like the Insurtech space vernacular was disrupt five or six years ago and now It is partner, I think It is not replacing the agent but augmenting the agent experience and expertise to their clients. I think that is the key for us.
Donald Light (14:02):
The terms excuse you have just mentioned are risk placement consultant, risk management consultant. Those are new ones for me. I think producer probably all of us had for over the years, the producers a producer. It is kind of easy. One word, what does it mean mean if you try probed the people that are saying this is how we are thinking about our agents and what does it mean in terms of how they think of their job and then how you respond. And Karina, if you want to add too how well Penguin may be changing capabilities. I dunno if you have analytics sections capabilities on your site or not, but let me just toss that out to both of you.
Kasey Ketcham (14:46):
Yeah, I think because we also provide services to our internal direct team, and I think one thing we recognized very early on and in direct, a very small percentage in commercial, conversely personal lines, very large percentage, but in commercial a small percentage are ready to fully digitally buy in service. They want that consultation because they are about to spend thousands of dollars per transaction that they entered everything, that they understood what they were buying and there were not gaps that they were not aware of at least before they made that purchase. For a lot of our independent agents who work up market, I think it is not gathering 25 documents or entering that five times, 10 times, it is providing an API to illustrate, hey, you got all the information you needed, you sell this product, do not worry about data entry as an example for us and Karina elaborate as well.
Karina Szymanski (15:46):
And I would add to that when we talk to independent agents of all sizes, so they have similar business problems they are trying to solve for right now, the complexity changes based on the size of the agency, but we heard the same sentiments and when they talked about, when we talked about producers, it has historically felt more transactional of a producer to handle a task at hand. And so by using the terms risk in place, risk advisor consultant, you see as the idea is to be there to support on an ongoing basis, you win when your customer wins. And so I think just changing that connotation for the producer also helps them know that they are empowered to not be reactive but proactive to the customer's needs.
Kasey Ketcham (16:34):
And I think that materializes in cross-sell upsell at point of sale. Some agents do it at point of sale, other agents do it at renewal. But I think being a risk advisor versus a producer I think reinforces the need to look beyond the immediate ask and proactively find the right products to mitigate those risks.
Donald Light (16:54):
Yeah, I mean at some level a label is a label, sure. But in another level, set up expectations, meet expectations, you have to have skills, you have to have tools. And It is very interesting. I mean if it is going to may affect, you have talked about how It is affecting you today, but push it out a few years, is the nature of the job really going to change and there are the carriers and the technology providers going to enable or are you going to lead, follow or be in the middle of the pack? Not asking If you want to respond to that, you can, but those are the three options, right?
Kasey Ketcham (17:33):
Yeah. And It is selling of course because That is where revenue is. But if they sold an auto policy from a risk advisor perspective, do they need a telematics program to sit alongside that to prevent versus just repair? And so as we think about how IOT plays a different role, how does the risk manager help to implement that for their clients?
Karina Szymanski (17:58):
Before we stepped in and we started building these multi-carrier single entry quote applications, some of these agents we are working with today, they were spending a ton of their time going from one carrier to another typing fever machine portals usually from one portal to the other and not to even count Salesforce had to be filled and or some agency management system had to be filled. And so now we have removed those keystrokes that frees these advisors to do just that and spend much more of that time and energy. Instead of doing routine typing, we are able to fill much of that information with our data analytics arm and we are able to validate that by simplifying the underwriting process. So that does free up the consultants to say, to have a use a higher scale.
Donald Light (18:49):
Okay. Let me follow up on that. The data analytics capability that both Penguin has. So you are going out to, I assume, a large number of data sources that are relevant for submissions in commercial insurance. And was that part of the original concept at Bold Penguin or is that something you kind of realized it was there, it had value? We are going to do it.
Karina Szymanski (19:11):
The latter, it was sort of a gift of we operate what we believe is the largest prospect exchange for commercial lines in the industry. So we see millions of data points because we have customers of all size buying and selling prospects from us. So we had a wealth of data that we could mine, which can be sort of leverage and compliment to public sources. So other companies obviously can go out there and use public databases to grab things like addresses and scrape social media sites to validate what the business is doing. But we
Donald Light (19:51):
Karina does it close down at 2:00 AM or is there dancing and heaven forbid liquor?
Karina Szymanski (19:57):
We have done this before.
Donald Light (19:58):
Yeah, first, but yeah, I do not club, but I know what insurers look at.
Karina Szymanski (20:04):
I can tell you have done this before and we are just able to have that additional double validation because we have so much in-house analytics. And so no, I do not think it was our initial design, but It is definitely taken us to the future in a big way because data has become king of helping with the efficiency piece.
Donald Light (20:23):
And Kasey, I am, I am going to follow up with you. Yeah. So Nationwide I, I am going to guess has it is own set of data scientists and looking out at it is own set of data. So does it kind of complimentary to what Bold Penguin can do or do you guys strike out on your own a lot or could you, I know you are not the data analytics guy, but I am putting you on the spot. Can you give us.
Kasey Ketcham (20:46):
Digital is data at it is core and we certainly have our bevy of data warehouses and pools and third party calls, etcetera. I think one hypothesis we have been kicking around over the last several years, where does third party live? Traditionally it is lived with the carrier as we have validated addresses identified how many feet from hydrant, etcetera, etcetera. But as you shift some of these processes forward for the agent in tools like Bold Penguin, will the data aggregation start to live there and be dispersed to the carriers? That said, we have a hundred years practically of data and we are leveraging that not only for pricing and underwriting traditionally, but also for the agent experience, applying machine learning to create recommendations through the sales process and things of that nature. So the application's becoming broader and dispersed across the value chain where it is traditionally resided in that pricing and underwriting space.
Donald Light (21:53):
So it is really additive, I mean between the two, yeah, organizations working closely together. One plus one maybe is 2.7 or something. Okay. Right.
(22:06)
Okay. So we have got a few minutes left. So let me ask first I will take us to our final slide and it hits a lot of themes where we go from here looking at carriers, agents and technologies there, there is kind of a call for action. I mean, I think for some of the reasons you have talked about, maybe some you have not talked about, but could you start with Karina, could you go a little bit deeper on what is the call from action? From a Bold penguin point of view, maybe we will turn to Kasey also from a nation, a carrier, a Nationwide point of view.
Karina Szymanski (22:43):
To your question, Donald, earlier on, what are we doing to be very planful in our roadmap and our product journey versus where do we need to be nimble? I think that is what we have to be really mindful of because we do want to be ahead and have business continuity. So whatever comes our way since the last three years have been filled with all unnatural things, be it pandemic or inflationary period that we are in and things like
Donald Light (23:11):
That, let us hope they are unnatural, right? Let us hope it was kind of a once in our lifetime, but maybe when maybe not.
Karina Szymanski (23:17):
Some normality, I have not seen normality for a few years. So we want to make sure We are doing all the things that you have to use your resources to be plan full of and to stay ahead of the game. We think that we should thrive in an environment like this that is been rife with those types of issues. So because it puts pressure on you to think about ways to do things more seamlessly and simpler and have this really differentiating experience for the customers so that you are always the chosen one. So it is put the pressure on us for that. But I think more than anything else, we have to work really collaboratively together because agents are who we serve relentlessly. We serve the agent channel. And so We are out there listening to them and saying, what do you need? And they are going more product, more carriers.
(24:02)
And so we have 40 carriers integrated and they are still, could you get us more? Right? Because of the market that we are in on the property side where some carriers have to make some changes to their appetite and that impacts the agent. So we have to serve them and make sure our technology is nothing if there is not a product behind it. And so for us it is this is why we work hand in hand and collaboratively to share and to create these feedback loops so that we are listening to the agent, we are listening to our carrier partners and we are really ready to adapt our roadmap as fits their needs and where the market's taking them.
Donald Light (24:39):
So that makes you, that is Bold Penguin and intermediary. Yes. Fair. Oh, Kasey, yeah.
Kasey Ketcham (24:47):
I mentioned earlier the evolution from disruption to collaboration. I think what Insurtech did disrupt is the way the carriers think prioritize and build. And so every day I am asking the team, what is the impediment for scale and adoption via agents? And we collect that through conversations with Karina and other technology partners. That agency feedback loop I alluded to earlier, identifying those capabilities. So from a distribution perspective, is it multi-location, multi classification? Is it additional lines of business at the quote and buying process for agents? Is it really servicing? Do they feel comfortable with where distribution is and is it servicing a i the session before us? In fact, I think you mentioned 90% of the maturity for APIs is around distribution. And so We are starting to look at other parts of the value chain to drive value, but it can not be done in isolation. It can not be done by one carrier through one technology provider because agents have choice in who they engage from a carrier perspective.
(25:51)
So it has to be this shared prioritization and that is very difficult in the carrier space. We do not traditionally talk to other carriers and collaborate in that way. I think Accord is probably the last great example of that where we collectively came together and said this will be the format for submissions or applications. I think we will see maybe a wave on the carrier side where we say this is the standard for APIs and it is starting to take place with early participants. I think that will bleed in, but we need more of the carriers and the agents have to demand those carriers to be at the table. But It is really a three-way conversation with agents, technology providers and those carriers.
Donald Light (26:37):
So what I am hearing is Bold Penguin works with, I think you said 40 plus or minus carriers, insurers Nationwide is one. And there is probably a dynamic, and again I am certainly not asking you to name names, but of the 40 some are probably more sensitive to the signals that you give. And I am not trying to imply that there is anything sensitive in the sense of here is what we are hearing from our agents. You carrier number 1, 3, 1 through 40 ought to know this. But then some carriers are going to say, that is very interesting, thanks. Others will say, that is very interesting, we are going to change some stuff to be better positioned. So is that a fair way of characterizing it or am I missing it?
Karina Szymanski (27:26):
I think That is fair because every company has a so many people raising their hand and saying, this is the big priority, we need to do this. We need to go run and work on this.
Donald Light (27:36):
Every insurer or agent?
Karina Szymanski (27:38):
Every company within Bold Penguin, we also always have conflicting demand for priorities. Okay. Everyone's trying to fight for what they think is the most important. Okay, so for our 40 plus carrier, certainly some carriers we work with are exclusive in the exclusive exclusive agent space. Some are independent, some are doing omnichannel, direct to consumer and other things. So we really have to take a step back and take a census of what is it that you want us to build? What are your agents telling us? But then we have to validate those data points with our other partners. So great example, Kasey, you mentioned multi-location, multi buildings, multi work comp exposure. There was a time where we only had maybe one carrier raising their hand and saying this is important to us, but it had not met that tipping point of demand because we were servicing a really micro small business audience. But as soon as we started seeing ourselves go more upstream, then we had hit this critical point where more carriers were saying, no, we really do need this to serve our agents. Since that, that is when at that tipping point, we do the build for it.
Kasey Ketcham (28:47):
And I think from a carrier perspective, relative to that question approaching our 100th birthday, we have carried tech debt from decisions we have made in the past forward. And we believe by being an early player in this space, it should reduce that tech debt long term because we can help shape the standards versus react to the standards because eventually the standards will be set from an API perspective across the value chain. Again, distribution's, the most mature servicing claims, etcetera will follow. And so how do you balance early investment as we wait for scale against tech debt that could pile up later.
Donald Light (29:32):
So tech check that same sometimes referred to as technology debt.
Kasey Ketcham (29:36):
Yes. Sorry.
Donald Light (29:37):
Well, so that is interesting and it is selling, one of the things we talk to insurance companies about is technology debt and it is conceptually, it is kind of what do you have to spend to catch up to what is current or even what will put you well positioned for three years out. I think that is kind of, if you are really heavy into legacy and may, well, I won't get into detail how you can be into heavy into legacy, but some insurers are. But you just, Kasey, what you just said, working with an outside technology provider, again like a Bold Penguin and others as well, that is a way of kind of shifting some of the hard, hard and soft spend to bring down the technology debt by using those outside sources. Is that a fair way?
Kasey Ketcham (30:24):
Fair. And often they are the arbitrator between 40 carriers to say this is how we are going to do it and we need you to comply if possible.
Donald Light (30:32):
Okay, so we We are under a minute left, so I will give you the 15 or 18 seconds each. Final thoughts, comments, Karina? First,
Karina Szymanski (30:41):
I would just say that We are in a great moment right now as we heard the panelists before us talking about and saying there was a time where it felt like technology was seen as a threat to the insurance space, be it the agency channel. Would you use the term disrupt that? We talked about disruption as if technology was going to come in and just reduce quality roles and quality jobs. I think we are now at the point where We are not trying to make the case that technology is important. We have made that case, everyone knows technology needs to be there. So I think the important thing is that we communicate to each other and sit back in a planful way to understand how we can blend the digital with the human interactions to make the most seamless customer experiences come to life. And that is not necessarily in replacement to skilled roles where the customer is looking for a consultant, but more in a companion of that.
Donald Light (31:38):
Okay, Kasey
Kasey Ketcham (31:39):
Resources are finite for everyone. You agents. I think identifying the highest value problem statement and then collectively solving that together. So It is that shared prioritization, collaboration.
Donald Light (31:51):
Okay, great. Well, I want to thank Karina and Kasey and thank everyone out there for I think having a very interesting conversation. I hope provided some good insights. Thank you everyone.
Kasey Ketcham (32:00):
Thank you.