Transcription:
Scott Gibson: (
Thank you, everyone for joining us, for our session, in the future of connectivity track, and we're here to talk about the trust factor, so how to grow opt-ins and connected insurance and personal lines. So if you sat through the last one, you had the commercial lines flavor. Now we're gonna talk about personal lines potentially something that all of you may even participate in in terms of the connected insurance. My name is Scott Gibson. I'm the America's leader for Unify for Willis Towers Watson. Unify is our enterprise wide system integrations, automation and governance platform. So it's a software technology for process automation. as well as my background is 15 years in the insurance industry as an actuary all in personal lines. So close to the nuts bolts of how connected insurance works from that perspective, I'll be moderating this panel on my right is Fred Blumer from Mile Auto and Fred, why don't you give a quick introduction?
Fred Blumer: (
Perfect. Yeah. Fred bloomer, great to be here. I did notice that they put us in the most far away location in this building. I don't know who had trouble finance, so I thought, well we're the least important session in here. And then this time of day, you're awesome to be here. So, and then poor Martin has been here, like this is the second session in a row. So, but no, listen great to be here. So I'm CEO of, of two organizations. So Mile Auto, and then we've got a partnership with Porsche. So CEO of Porsche Auto Insurance as well, and we do paper mile insurance, and I can go into details on that, but my background is connected vehicles working with OEMs and building systems for companies like Mercedes-Benz and then also usage based insurance programs. My team, helped design and build the UBI program for state farm, seems like a million years ago called drive safe and save. but no, this is a fascinating topic. And I'm excited about being up here with two really smart guys.
Scott Gibson: (
Thank you very much. And Martin,
Martin Higgins: (
So, my name is Martin Higgins for those of you that were in the last session, I'm gonna be redundant and repeat myself. I'm a senior principal for Aite-Novarica. you may be familiar with more familiar with the name Novarica than Aite-Novarica, but we're an industry analyst, consulting firm and advisory firm that focuses on the insurance industry. So I've been in the industry for about 25 years, myself, and a range of different roles across a range of different vendors and consulting firms, and I've been with Aite-Novarica for about four years. I focus on kind of the intersection between insurance and technology, so looking forward to the conversation.
Scott Gibson: (
Great, so before we get started, the first time Fred and I met in a pre-call for this, he asked me if I'd ever considered kind of uses based insurance for my own personal insurance. And, I said, no I hadn't actually, even though I'm well familiar with it. And then he started asking me some characteristics about, myself and my household. And so I'm in a married household with two young kids, but we both work from home. I drive maybe 4,000 miles a year, my wife probably a little bit more than that, cuz she does a little bit more of the running around than I do. And it never dawned on me that uses based concerns. It would be a good fit for me. So looking out at the audience, how many of you have, done maybe progressive snapshot or one of the other, either OBD devices or mobile devices for your auto insurance
Martin Higgins: (
Three.
Fred Blumer: (
Okay. Not enough of you all this side of the
Martin Higgins: (
Fred is gonna be selling you for the rest of your.
Fred Blumer: (
Need to get with it. So, yeah, by the end of this session, you can go and apply for you. You can go and apply for insurance at my auto and we'll take
Scott Gibson: (
Care of you and it, and it's not surprising cuz we're all familiar with insurance and yet we still haven't felt the need to go that extra mile to the connected world. So just kind of thinking about that adoption let's start with, where is the state of the industry? So Martin, I'm gonna come to you first sure. What are the current adoption levels and where are they trending?
Martin Higgins: (
Sure, So again, if you were on the last, panel, we track the industry, we, we have a research council which consists of about 400, 450 insurer CIOs. So we kind of are pretty well connected into the industry and we understand what, insurers are spending their money on from a technology perspective. Our estimates are about roughly 20% of insurers, out there have some kind of telematics program going on, and we estimate somewhere between six and 8%, it seems to be the figure, in terms of penetration into into policyholders, right? So somewhere between six and 8% of, of personal or policies out there have some form of telematics, either usage based or which would be kind of pay by the mile, which, which is what Fred does or more kind of pay how you drive.
Martin Higgins: (
So driver scoring either beforehand as part of the underwriting process or continuous in some cases. So both of those types of programs are out there, we think based on the industry information, we have, we think it's somewhere around six to 8%, of policies today, all of the top 10 insurers offer some form of UBI program. some of them have been doubling down on it and seen significant growth, so it's a significant area of, of growth in the industry, but the penetration has been relatively low. And I think one of the things we want to talk about today is why, what are causes and how do you, how do we as insurers? if we think it's a good thing, how do we drive that adoption up?
Scott Gibson: (
And so it's kind of interesting, 6 to 8% I would've expected 6 to 8% growth of additional penetration just because of the pandemic. And yet it's, it's really not quite, even though you keep reading every article that the pandemic is driving more and more people to usage based insurance because their driving habits are changing. They wanna save money, the penetration is still somewhat low. So it's kind of back to that question of why. So for myself it was inertia. I never even really considered it. So what are some of the other kind of aspects that may be preventing people from coming into a usage based program?
Fred Blumer: (
Yeah, I would I think the biggest competitor to it is inertia. So you're, in a good group of people, that are lazy and don't take much personal initiative. So that's you, but no I think there's a fear of the unknown for consumers that are going okay, am I gonna plug this thing into my car? What is it collecting? and I'll tell you, one of my other jobs back at my former company was called Hughes Telematics was, was responding to court subpoenas for data. And it was not just for accident cases. It was for divorce cases. Where was my husband sleeping on August the 12th or child custody cases? I think my ex-wife goes to a bar on the way home or when she picks up the kids and incredibly invasive stuff.
Fred Blumer: (
And I mean, it was used a few times even to put people in jail and our philosophy and the reason we formed my auto is mileage only. And the way we collect it's we don't plug anything into a car. You don't have an app on your phone and I can get into the, to the technologies. But we did that simply because what our belief was, it's none of your insurance company's business, where you or your car asleep at night. And it really is invasive stuff. So I would say one of the big errors in the industry is being crystal clear with consumers as to exactly what data you're using. And I think most insurance companies today think, oh, well we'll just get them to opt down. And boy, we can suck all the data out of it.
Fred Blumer: (
We want and do whatever we want with it. And I think that that's a real problem. I think if insurance companies would say, look, we're gonna collect these six data elements and we're gonna proactively not collect all of these other things. And then secondly, give consumers the ability to be flexible in what they share. I like to drive fast. I drive a fast car, I'm sorry. I haven't had a speeding ticket in years, so my insurance, well, I'm my insurance company now, but my previous insurance companies didn't know that, but I would've been willing to share my breaking my time of day, day of week, but not my speed and not my acceleration. And if an insurance company could tailor products and be clear as to what they're doing, but tailor products based on what consumers are willing to share, I think that it would go a long way to getting adoption higher.
Martin Higgins: (
I think there's a little bit upstream as well, though. Just to, before you even get to the point where you get to the customer, that's maybe not willing to share for that reason, but, I found a statistic in a previous talk that had we'd done on this topic from, it was from 2019. So things may have changed, but only at that time, only 30% of, insureds had ever been offered any kind of, UBI or pay by direct. So there's definitely some inertia. It's not just on the part of the insured though. It's on the part of the agent, right? The agents are familiar with the types of policies that they've always sold. There's some potential risk, with a new product that may, ultimately not prove to be a good fit for a customer. So if an agent can sell a product that is straightforward and that is tested and proven, it seems like that the inertia, and that's a significant number, right? Only 30% of policy holders had been offered, any kind of usage based or drive telematics based driving program.
Fred Blumer: (
Well, and speaking of inertia, I've got a question for you, Scott. Okay. So in our planning session, you talked about the fact that, you know you live at home, you work from you live at home. Most people do unless you live under a bridge, but so you live at home, I'm glad, but you work from home, your wife works from home and we discussed the inertia issue, put you on the spot since we had our planning session, have you gone and gotten a quote
Scott Gibson: (
I have not.
Fred Blumer: (
That no. And why? I mean What are you hiding?
Scott Gibson: (
My policy's not up for renewal yet. So it's kind of like I'm just gonna let it go. And then maybe when it comes up and I'm gonna, you'll forget about shop and actually for my household the homeowners is kind of the one that drives the shopping behavior because the auto isn't necessarily, a significant cost or a significant kind of monthly bill for us. So, it's kind of the homeowners as that comes up for renewal, it's like, oh, now we gotta switch and it's yeah, let me keep 'em together. So there's something easy. And I mean, it goes back to that shopping experience, that customer experience. So we've got you're not even being offered the UBI. And then when you are, there's some questions around what's actually being collected. So, from my perspective with the times more and more of us are familiar with having our data collected and having these companies know very ton about us, and we accept that for the convenience. So what is it that connected insurance needs to provide besides maybe the potential for a lower rate? That seems to be the only carrot that the insurance carriers are using to try and get people to opt in is as you could save some money, what else needs to be there to kind of overcome that convenience factor or that other factor that allows them to be more open with their data?
Fred Blumer: (
Yeah. So a great question. So I've got two parts of that. So insurance companies need to think about who, what other consumers of data in the marketplace might be interested in that data, so mile auto is recently engaged by the state of California. I see bin miners out there. He knows all about this. So I'm calling you Ben. No, but for their a lot of states are looking at getting rid of the gas tax and starting to charge people on a per mile basis. Well guess what state of California called us and said, you're doing per mile insurance in California. Can we offer to use the exact same data you're already collecting by drivers in California for their new usage. what's it called Ben road charge road charge. Yeah. Thank you. The road use charge program.
Fred Blumer: (
And so there was an example of, being able to double up the usage of that same data, but another example, I mean, think about in just with a narrow piece of data, like mileage, like we use what's mileage relevant for all of your vehicle maintenance, your, your battery life and your car, your windshield wipers your tires in a vehicle. And I think if, insurance companies got creative and said to consumers, I guarantee you could find auto parts manufacturers that would partner with your insurance company. And you said, great, because you're doing this usage based insurance program, you're gonna qualify for discounts on oil changes or cuz we are gonna do that every three to 5,000 miles or tires or windshield wipers. So I think if, if insurance companies quit thinking about operating in this silo and break out of that and have some new ideas, then there would be more interest in it. Would, would you do it if you knew that you could save money on other things I'm, putting
Scott Gibson: (
Maybe I drive an electric vehicle, so I'm not too worried about oil changes.
Fred Blumer: (
Okay,
Scott Gibson: (
Good. But yeah, no it's possible. And it's interesting cuz insurers very much are they're the collectors of data. They find all these different third parties for data, but they've never really been one to say, what do I do with my data in terms of how can I expand it out? How can I almost monetize that information or use it to provide an ancillary service to our customers? I think we did have a question, from the audience, is it?
Audience Member 1: (
Yeah, I was just curious Martin mentioned the penetration rate six 10 but that a little bit off scale with some really large legacy yeah. Folks of business. Do you know about what the, of new business percentage,
Martin Higgins: (
For, I don't have that number on me. No, but I think it's, with certain programs, especially during, the pandemic, there was a, some of the programs that were usage based like Freds, but there are other ones that go by how much you drive versus how you drive, right. There was a significant uptick in those during the pandemic but many of the programs out there are not that they're, incentivizing based on driving behaviors and how, how fast you go around corners, how you break, and it seems like, those two are kind of different products and I think there's much more buyer kind of reticence about how you driving type insurance than how much you're driving, especially if you're like Scott, if you're driving 4,000 miles a year, you may be overpaying, you probably are overpay for your insurance relative to your mileage.
Scott Gibson: (
I can give you one data point from a top 10 carrier that it is in that 20 to 25% of new customers tend to opt into it. then they have some, some lapse out of that program and it ends up in the high teens and that's kind of where it stabilizes of their kind of new customer base, whereas yeah, their big legacy books aren't really turning into or converting into kind of the telematics program. So that was again, it's only one data point it's one example, but that is a little bit higher. It'll start to pull that 6 to 8% up over time. Sure
Audience Member 2: (
Is there a difference in adoption between, connected programs from legacy companies versus startups and new companies and how much of the reticence to engage is I don't want to go with an insurance company. I don't know, versus I know the insurance company, but I'm hesitant about telematics.
Martin Higgins: (
That's a very good question. I don't have data on it, but I can see that it's when you look at some of the pure play telematics usage based insurance or PAY as you drive they're deemed to be disruptors. They're often selling direct. Scott's point I think is a good one you're going, if you've got the inertia of going to the same agent, you've got a package policy with your homeowners especially I think many people, I mean, I'd be interested in just a poll of the audience. How many of how many folks out there would consider themselves to be safe drivers okay. How many of you that had your hands up would be confident that an insurance company would view you as such? Absolutely.
Audience Member 1: (
I think so.
Martin Higgins: (
So it's a very small group, right? and I think that's part of the problem. There's a perception that if I break hard, right? There's no context to what that breaking was around the device, the accelerometer in my phone is detecting a hard break event. Is that my fault? Is that something I should be penalized for? Did somebody come in front of me? so there's just a lot of concern, generally, even if you are a safe driver about how granting your insurance company, access to your data is gonna be used potentially and not. And that's not even to mention the privacy concerns around the data. If you go to some of these, you mentioned some of the inure techs, the startup providers, and I did go look at some of their privacy policies.
Martin Higgins: (
I mean, they're, they're shocking, right? If anybody takes the time to read except their data use policies for some of these tele tele there's no, there's no commitment that they're not gonna sell your data. There's no commitment that they're not gonna use it. They don't tell you clearly what they're using it for how long they're storing it, are they keeping identifiable information? So that's a big, for me as a, somebody who's concerned about my data and usage of my data I that's a significant concern. I don't know if that translates into a concern in the market though, because when you look at the numbers, there's only a relatively small number of, potential policy holders that wouldn't consider. It's like, I think 10% is the number I saw banded around of, of policy of potential customers that would not consider any kind of usage based insurance.
Martin Higgins: (
So it's quite a low number, but it's definitely, there's a perception that and this is gonna become even more. We talked about it a little bit in the last panel, but it's not as applicable to commercial insurance as it is to personal, but privacy regulations that are coming that will likely be federalized in the next few years. We've got some state ones now, they're gonna be looking very, and, I guarantee you looking at some of the privacy policies of some of the insurers that are out there, they're gonna be in trouble when, when something like CCPA gets rolled out more broadly across the country.
Audience Member 9: (
Yeah. I just wanna look back to health. Cause I think that is actually quite prevalent and we all want life to be easy, right. Less friction. So do you have anyone that you're seeing maybe get closer to connected home? Are we making those parallels? Right. So we see like some types or they're out there, but not anywhere close to scale even that Google home, Mike, it's not fully as anyway. So my question is, I guess just how far is that? Because I think it's that easiness, if you could easily do vote, but if you're gonna double to somebody's workload of making sure they're properly insured in their home, in their auto, they have to go talk to two people. It doesn't matter if you give 15% on tires, there's no amount of that. That's gonna change if I'm getting that flyer in the mail already. Do you know what I mean? Like it's, that's not, I don't believe that you could partner your way to success in meaningful discounts that outweigh that mental load. How I just had to double up the amount of like gain service so my question is how far away is connected home to build a play hard with usage based auto insurance?
Fred Blumer: (
Yeah. And I've dealt some in the connected home world. not nearly as much as connected car, but no it's much, much further away. Cuz if you think about a home, you think about all the different things you have to wire in a home and the challenges of it you've got electrical systems, you need to check, you've got all the points of, water in the home that can cause some of the most damage in homes. And so it's really expensive today to go in and wire a home. And it's much different than someone putting an app on their phone, plugging an BD device or, using the most amazing technology like our technology but no, so it's not nearly as far along as the connected home. And, but I think your point about bundling is a great point.
Fred Blumer: (
I mean, obviously that's something that's pervasive and persuasive to Scott is certainly persuasive in the industry. That's why the insurance, the large insurance companies that have home and auto advertise, bundling that certainly makes it more sticky. But one thing I do the question the gentleman just asked a second ago about branding and you've got all these startups versus traditional insurance companies. And I think you're absolutely correct that, there are a lot of people that just, aren't gonna take a chance and my gosh, this is your insurance. I mean, who in the world would go out and buy insurance from a company like mile auto when you haven't heard of them and it's true. I mean, we're the best that's out there, but a lot of people, haven't heard about you and so no they're gonna buy progressive.
Fred Blumer: (
They're gonna buy travelers. They're gonna buy one of the traditional products. So it is an issue, but that's, I think that's consistent. And if you sell peanut butter, are you gonna buy Jeff? Are you gonna buy Joe Schmoe's peanut butter? I'm gonna buy Jeff. So it's but it's, I think that is an issue. The other thing, I don't know if there are any progressive people in here, I love progressive by the way. but I had understood that the penetration of new customers, new just monoline auto insurance customers, that progressive was like around 50% so it's much larger than other insurance companies with their snapshot program.
Scott Gibson: (
Yeah. I'm gonna go a little bit step further on that. The friction comment of, kind of the bundle of the home in auto, I don't know, you're just looking for an excuse. Well, we asked about the adoption for auto and we got a few hands, but has anyone connected their home? Does anyone think they have kind of like a smart home with smart devices throughout it? So just a little bit the one, so I do as well. And I started building mine probably 10 years ago or whatever. And one of the challenges, it's not just the number of devices the phone is kind of the telematics device of today some are kind of moving into the OEMs where the car's actually gonna provide the data platform, but in the home side, there's still no standards.
Scott Gibson: (
There's multitude of devices. Some are using various low frequency platforms. Some are now gonna be wifi based. And so the challenge there is just making sure that the information from the connected home is actually gonna be complete. It's gonna be sufficient to give the insurer a peace of mind that they're actually gaining valuable information, if I put two water sensors in my home, but I've got five sinks or an, a sump pump and a washer and a dryer you've got so many different points of entry that you need to try and monitor and track that, it's just, it's a complexity issue.
Martin Higgins: (
Any other questions?
Scott Gibson: (
If you have another one
Audience Member 9: (
I was leading on that is so like the green led certified as an example, that's assign right to see a standardization that means are, do you see hope? And I've watched for, I'm not seeing a certification. I'm thinking for rental, for buildings, for condos, this is our first chance of like new buildings. You know what I mean? Being built that way from the beginning with a standardized pack that then met something. Cause anywhere you're seeing that in these smart cities connected column where you're like, okay, these guys are clubs, right? Like this is model cause they see products and parts expire before you have updated the standard that was useful for an insurance company. So that there's an entire crisis cost as well as how standardization. But are you seeing it in any of those sort of new build? Is there anywhere
Fred Blumer: (
I have no idea, but I'm terrified of that because I think at some point when you connect everything, guess who can find out everything you do and all of a sudden, well, and certainly the government can go, okay you've used your quota of water. We're gonna slow you down or you've used, your home is too cool, Fred. So in, in the summertime, I want you to keep it at 78 instead of 74. I'm terrified of that and I'm a gadget person, so I have things hooked up all over my house, but once it becomes standardized and mandated, I think that's, that's terrifying
Martin Higgins: (
To me, I think the big risk is not the government. The big risk is, big tech, right? Google already has that is
Fred Blumer: (
The government, right?
Martin Higgins: (
whoever owns the end point, that's gathering that data ultimately owns the customer, whether it's you think about the endpoint as being the agent in a distribution chain or a device of some description in the house or in the car Tesla, for example we know what Elon Musk is planning to do with regards to the insurance value chain, right? He owns that endpoint. He owns driving behavior. He wants to cut out. All of he has said that the industry is incredibly inefficient, too many steps. He's gonna, but same thing with connected home, right? There are connected home players out there. Their interest is not just in connected home. Their interest is gathering information about you as a customer they can, insurance becomes an embedded product in that, in that world, right?
Martin Higgins: (
They're gonna provide you with some risk information. You're gonna maybe provide capital to them, but do they need a primary to do that? Can they go to the reinsurance market? Could that go to the capital market to do that? So the risk is, whoever's capturing that information really has the power. And now you, as an insurer can, can try and play a role in that. But the question is, can you be effective? Even the large, the tier one insurers are gonna really struggle to justify getting in a device into a home versus, someone like Comcast who's already got the base unit, and same thing with Amazon, with Google, they already have Alexa, they have, they have these devices, they have that ecosystem. That's the challenge to the industry is how do you cooperate with those? because you can't, you can't replicate what they've got. So, you end up getting essentially, disintermediated from that customer in the process.
Audience Member 9: (
And I really your comments about the, whatever ultimate. So, what the trend seems to be going that the OEM will be the data and eventually in a decade or two, all the cars are gonna be connected. And it seems naturally they will be the one to sell at the engine. So are we the company or whoever in the intro tech causes, are we just filling in the temporary gap from now until all the data, the holders start selling
Scott Gibson: (
Engine? So that is the big question, really. I mean, kind of where is this headed? The OEMs have that advantage because the technology is in the vehicle, you can certainly opt into that. It means you don't have to worry about them tracking your phone or having an app on your phone because it's part of the vehicle. and it'll be interesting to see kind of where that progresses, because moving into the insurance space, everyone thinks it's easy until they start doing it and they start taking on some risk and then it becomes a lot more challenging and a lot more volatile for their liking.
Fred Blumer: (
So the OEM does not own the data. You own the data in your car and it's and Tesla, well there, no everything about and your Tesla. Okay. Well, you and Elon are typed in. Yeah, I mean, but it's your data and there's gonna be a massive in some states battle at some point in time in
Martin Higgins: (
Some states.
Fred Blumer: (
Yeah. I mean, but I know back when we were building connecting vehicle systems for OEMs, big debate the OEMs were like, well, this is our data. And it's like, well, no, we actually ended up parsing the data and anything, any data that was, was warranty related, we said, okay, that's the OEM's data, cuz it doesn't make any sense to the consumer, but the rest of it, we said it's consumer state and you need to get opt in. And as Martin, I think you said earlier, who reads your privacy statements? No, you just check the box, I'm gonna opt into everything. So in essence, consumers are giving the ownership of that data. But no, I think that's a really tough, tough challenge, but I think your ultimate point was a really good one is the insurance industry, are we just kind of part-time caretakers and we're all gonna be disintermediated soon. And all the companies that are in here, you might as well close shop, cuz you're gonna go out of business and everybody needs another job because it's gonna be like Elon Musk. I mean he can do it directly.
Martin Higgins: (
I think there are certain
Fred Blumer: (
And, that type of thing is coming
Martin Higgins: (
There are certain kinds of, of insurance that are gonna, and this is just the evolution of the industry. There are certain kinds of insurance that are gonna go away, commodity insurance, the other, the self-driving car concept is all of the major manufacturers have projected level five autonomy by 2026 or something like that. I think it's optimistic but you know what happens to insurance auto insurance, personal auto insurance when the car is driving right at that point, your OEM is assuming the risk anyway, right's it's their vehicle that it's their software, that's driving liability insurance. So longer time. Yeah, exactly longer term, it? Personal auto insurance is gonna radically change anyway. And who buys the policy is gonna be significantly different from what it is today.
Martin Higgins: (
It's a bigger question though, about than just auto it's about the connected home. It's about it's about how much data we're providing and what does that leave? many of our models within the industry are risk models are because of climate change, because for other reasons, new risks cyber risk, many of the traditional ways that we've modeled risk are under threat as well. So, it's another reason why some of these, these external, data providers may feel like they have a play where they didn't historically.
Audience Member 9: (
And why I said about so companies in the past to closely partner with developments now who really vaccinated, which part of the data can insurance company can consumer use price of a vehicle. So what you're saying is the OEM, they do have the data that does not necessarily means they can't use the data.
Fred Blumer: (
So that, was kind of my point. I thought Martin's point was actually better than mine, whoever who I know you're shocked that I admitted that
Martin Higgins: (
You're supposed to be arguing with me arguing with this.
Fred Blumer: (
But I think whoever owns that endpoint of the data really is in the powerful position. And yeah, so it's the big tech companies which are the same as the government.
Audience Member 9: (
So the storage of data versus the ownership,
Martin Higgins: (
It's really the end point who's capturing the data. And there is a lot of value in, five years ago, 10 years ago, telemetry was, not hadn't standardized on the mobile device. It was typically it was a dongle that was plugged into the vehicle in the last five years it's been standardized, it's the mobile device now, but there's much more to that data capture than potential than just capturing data for for driving behaviors, right? You can actually, many insurers don't have any touchpoint with their customer other than when there's a claim, right, maybe the agent is there when the policy is issued, having a mobile footprint on, on the customer's device allows the insurer to, to engage with that customer on a much more regular basis through, a lot of what insureds are looking for is just a discount, but they're looking for other things too, like 30% roughly of insureds are looking for kind of value, add safety features on the device.
Martin Higgins: (
Can you tell me what my teenagers are doing? Can you, tell me if they're breaking the speed limit so that I can coach them in driving more, they're looking for these kind of value add features. So if you can provide those as part of your telemetry device and some of the vendors out there do, right. Some of the software vendors that provide these services have gone beyond just driver tracking then you can provide that additional service and that stickiness to the customer that goes some way towards justifying them, giving up, ownership of that data to you but you also have to be a good steward of that data, right? You have to be very clear in terms of how you're gonna use it, how you're gonna store it, because many of your competitors probably aren't right.
Martin Higgins: (
And there is definitely, I'd like to see a privacy acceptable use policy written in plain English, front and center of any of these programs to say, this is how we're gonna use your data. This is, what pieces of your data we're gonna use. This is what we're gonna use it for. We're not gonna sell your data. we store it, desensitized de personalized. There's no risk of any data breach to you that should really be front and center of all of these programs. And it's, buried in many of them. I mean, to Fred's point earlier on about his solution. I think part of the strength of that is you're giving up a photo of your odometer is essentially what you're doing through a device. There's nothing more invasive than that. So the whole privacy concern comes right off, less invasive. It comes the whole Yeah. So, I mean it's addressing that concern, but you can address that concern in other ways with, a decent privacy statement with, with a commitment to act as a steward of any data that a policy holder is giving you voluntarily.
Audience Member 9: (
I'm gonna ask you this. So is it paramedics the game changer for,
Martin Higgins: (
I think eventually it will be I think the challenge is adverse selection. At some point is gonna come become a play here. You're gonna, if you don't offer a program, you're gonna be adversely selected. You're gonna get the risky drivers, self-selecting your program, I think it has to reach a certain level of adoption for that to be a factor, it's gonna, breach that adoption with OEM integration with tester, with Volvo, with I think Ford is doing it now. So that data is being, so it's gonna, it's gonna achieve a critical mass at some point that whole industry is trending towards kind of mutualization in the sense that we're pricing, we're moving away from pool based pricing towards, much more individual based pricing. And there's nothing more predictive when it comes to rating than driving behavior when it comes to auto. Right. So that's the goal standard when it comes condition.
Audience Member 9: (
Where are you? I mean, you can drive
Martin Higgins: (
A hundred miles. Yeah. I mean, what's the alternative to, drive our behavior. It's like credit score in many cases. Right. so there are issues with telemetry, but it's more perfect than anything else we've got in terms of really being a proxy for the risk of a loss, for an insurer. And that's ultimately why I think it's gonna
Scott Gibson: (
Absolutely. And kind of stopped you there. We joked when we were doing our pre-calls that we could do this for two hours or so, and we blew right through our half hour. So we're like 10 minutes over.
Fred Blumer: (
Yeah. And y'all been very patient I've noticed that the only people that have stayed are people I've paid to be here. So thank you.
Martin Higgins: (
For, Freddy's gonna intercept you at the door and sell you one of his, policies.
Fred Blumer: (
Absolutely. So thank you. This is good. Fun, good questions. Thank
Martin Higgins: (
You. Thank you all. Thank you, everyone.