Digitally transforming insurance starts with a strong organization. But insurance companies find themselves competing for top-flight talent with other industries. Arizent and Digital Insurance research finds four in 10 carriers feel they are falling behind in the talent war. Join Digital Insurance editor in chief Nathan Golia and Arizent research director Kerry Gross for a look at the pain points insurers find themselves in, and a discussion of what winning organizations are doing to beat the odds and sign on the talent that will lead the insurance industry into a new era.
Transcription:
Nathan Golia: (
Yeah, good afternoon, everyone. I almost said good morning, but it has just past noon time here in Texas, where, uh, where I am, um, welcome in to our war for talent, uh, transformation forum. The second of our transformation forms. As a reminder, you can find these on dig in every month, uh, as we, uh, look to, uh, bring you the conversations on, on issues affecting the insurance industry, um, in a deeper, in a deeper and more interactive way. Uh, today I'm joined by Kerry Gross, who is director research intelligence for Arizent. Um, this is based on a survey that, uh, our Arizent research group did across several of our brands, but we're gonna zoom in on some of the insurance insights in terms of competition for talent. Kerry will present the research and I'll, uh, you know, fill in with some of the, uh, some information on what we're hearing, uh, throughout, uh, insurance, uh, to sort of, uh, you know, color in color in the lines here a little bit. So I'm gonna turn it over to Kerry to drive our, uh, drive our survey results out. So thanks, Carrie.
Kerry Gross: (
Great. Thanks Nate. I'm looking forward to talking through this research with you and everyone who's listening along. Um, as you just said, you know, we talked to Arizent is the parent company of digital insurance, and we also publish a number of other publications. And what we really wanted to understand this past April was what's happening in the war for talent. We know it's impacting across all of the industries that we interact with. And so we talked to about almost 600 people leaders across the seven industry segments that we serve. Um, in particular, as Nate said, and today we'll be talking about, you know, those respondents from the insurance industry. In particular, we talked to 75 leaders, um, in the insurance industry, 27% of those are leaders of leaders in their organization. So executives and 73% are leaders of ind individual contributors. And everyone we talk to are in management level roles are higher and we've have 40% who are in the C-suite senior business executives or division or department heads.
Kerry Gross: (
And then thinking about net premiums written, um, they're split between those that have more than 5 billion in premiums, and those that have less than that. So really taken as a whole, these experiences reflect the whole breadth of experience from across the, um, insurance industry. And I'm, I'm really excited to talk about these results with you today. Um, so let's just jump in and, and level set where we're at looking at this high level, um, pieces of information. We really wanted to understand, you know, what level of challenge our insurers having with these three key areas, attracting key talent, retaining key talent and maintaining a large enough workforce to do the work. And what we see is that it's a high impact in common challenge for more than 70% of insurance companies. And Nate, I'm really curious from you, you know, what big picture trends are you seeing and insurance that are driving each of these issues?
Nathan Golia: (
Well, I think in terms of attraction and retention, it really comes down to, um, I think we'll talk a little bit about, you know, more of these things later on, but insurance companies are in a, in a, uh, pure digital transformation, which is what we before on here at digital insurance. And, uh, yeah, there's, uh, there's a number of, uh, employees within the insurance industry who have insurance knowledge who have insurance, uh, subject matter expertise that are retiring out and they have to be replaced, but there's that combination, there's that new, um, paradigm that's needed of someone who both understands, uh, the insurance industry and is, um, looking to, uh, you know, work in insurance specifically, and also has a digital mindset. So I think with attraction and retention, um, and the reason you see like mostly around half of insurers saying, it's a big challenge for, to do both of those.
Nathan Golia: (
And really only a small, you know, about a third saying that it's not a challenge at all. Uh, it really comes down to just like trying to get those employees who you're making that decision. Am I gonna hire in some people who are, who have insurance subject matter knowledge and came in coming from that realm and teach them digital, or, or am I gonna go the other way around? And they, and people, if you're starting with digital talent, those, those people have some other options. And if you're starting with insurance, uh, you're, it's, uh, you're, you're competing for a smaller pool of, of talent. Therefore there's a lot more competition. One thing I thought was interesting about this slide is that maintaining a large enough workforce to do the work doesn't seem to be the problem right now. And I'm wondering how much that, you know, is reflected of the various ways in which digital transformation has actually made the insurance process, less people intensive, but we are seeing a pendulum swing in that area where a lot of, um, you know, sort of automation, which we talked about actually in the last transformation form, uh, automation was seen as a way to remove people from the equation, but now insurers are seeing in the market, the, uh, importance of having a human touch in so many ways across the insurance ecosystem.
Nathan Golia: (
Um, so you know, how the size of workforce you need is, is also a sort of evolving concern,
Kerry Gross: (
Definitely in that human piece. You know, when I talked about this data in the wealth management industry, similar aging out is happening among wealth managers. Um, but still thinking about the value like it, bringing in digital transformation, how, how important it is to keep humans doing value, add pieces, you know, and you still need humans with that subject matter knowledge, for sure.
Nathan Golia: (
Yeah. We see that in the, I'm sorry, in the, the distribution service area, especially right. Um, you know, agencies are, you know, are sort of coming back and I wanna say they're coming back into VO, but there was this sort of, uh, conventional wisdom about digital transformation that the, uh, insurance agent was gonna be disintermediated out of the equation altogether. But as complexity is increased in the people's, uh, just perception of what they need in terms of risk management throughout the pandemic and various other changes that have happened in the past couple years, um, the, the ability to have a person at the other end of the line, uh, has become more important. You're seeing it ensures doubling down and reaching out to try and get more people in into those customer facing areas.
Kerry Gross: (
And that makes so much sense to me. And, and thinking about that human element, let's, you know, dig into why we insurers are losing folks right now. We see, um, you know, the top reasons. These are the top five reasons that insurers are losing talent compensation being number one, followed by lack of advancement opportunities, lack of flexibility, and work schedule issues with leadership and lacks of flexibility and work location, and, you know, across all the research that I've done in my life about war for talent compensation being too low is often at the top. And we can talk about how inflation and other things are changing, you know, how, what compensation level should be, but I'm really interested in the, the things that are new, you know, that lack of flexibility and work schedule and lack of flexibility and work location. Um, you know, what do you make of those challenges, challenges that companies are having
Nathan Golia: (
Well, but think about the insurance industry in general. And if you know, it was interesting if you looked at the, you know, our first slide again, of the composition of the kinds of, of carriers that we're talking about, like PNC and health being at the top. I mean, those are pretty diffuse. Um, there's organizations that, where there, where there's various different sort of centers. It's not a cluster like of everyone's in San Francisco where everyone's in New York, like some other industries, um, or even everyone's, you know, like in, in Dallas or Houston or someplace like that. Um, and, you know, moving insurers in the past have had, have talked about like, well, we gotta get people to move to these, you know, small Midwestern cities to work for us in some, and, and, you know, there's various level, you know, we're, we're, we're competing on that angle and I think work location.
Nathan Golia: (
Um, the fact that we're not seeing, I mean, it is the lo the last one on here for insurance. And in some ways it actually has probably almost come back around to be a benefit for insurers. If people are looking for a lower cost of living, Hey, you can work in Columbus or you can work in, uh, you know, uh, you know, small towns in Illinois or Wisconsin. Um, those are more appealing now and you can even, and you can have a job there, or you can live someplace and, uh, you know, work remotely instead of having to live in, um, you know, New York or Chicago, uh, if you're working for, you know, one of those companies, um, this , um, the scheduling thing. I, I, I guess what I'm saying is I, I, I feel like I've, I've hear a lot of insurers saying that we're willing to compromise on those, because they've already been thinking about that. They've been, they've thought about in the past about like, well, we have a vocational issue here. Um, they've always talked about work location as problem. Sometimes people want to stay in New York and, and commute tele in telecommute. Now they can do that as well. So, um, I think that's a, that's a good thing for insurers. I think compensation is just always the number one thing people are looking for and in inflation, um, and, and in housing prices, especially is, is going to drive that
Kerry Gross: (
Definitely. And then it sounds like insurance is a little bit different from, you know, the banking industry, who I was talking to, where they have big heads of big banks who have lots of real estate where they wanna bring people back into New York city, right. Like maybe insurers, particularly because I think insurers and bankers are pulling some of the same tech talent, if mm-hmm , if they're competing at that level, um, you know, that then that flexibility is, is something that's more available in the insurance space or has the potential to be there more than in other industries that we're talking to.
Nathan Golia: (
Right. I mean, it is interesting that insurers are in sort of the places that people were going, you know, amidst the pandemic, you know, to sort of leave, uh, the big cities, if that's what they wanted to do. I mean, again, like these, these parts are, are, are moving so rapidly. It's kind of hard to make any assumption one way or the other, but, uh, the location of the insurance industry or location of big insurance, uh, carriers being in, in some other different sorts of places has always been a, a recruitment issue for them.
Kerry Gross: (
And, and speaking of that, you know, there's another kind of human element that we're talking about here. We asked, you know, do you see higher rates of attrition in any particular types of roles across employees? And what we saw is, um, you know, almost more than a quarter say that they're seeing higher rates of attrition among employees in frontline or front office contributor roles, and also, uh, in employees in technical or computing roles, which I think is really interesting from a like job role perspective that those frontline folks, uh, and those tech computing roles. And I know we'll talk more about tech in a little bit, but I think what's also interesting is the stuff on the right hand side of this slide, higher rates of attrition among women among, uh, employees with caregiving responsibilities, employees with children younger than 18. And, and often what we know about other pieces of research that caregivers and, uh, employees with children younger than 18 often tend to be women as well. And I'm curious, you know, what do you make of these disparities in roles, uh, that are, or job roles that insurers are losing?
Nathan Golia: (
Well, I think we wanna start in the, uh, you know, frontline, uh, front office. And I don't know if there's a correlation that we were able to measure between how many of that, how many employees in those areas are also women, or have caregiving responsibilities for young children. Um, but that is the major concern right now, uh, with insurance companies, you know, their big focus is customer experience in general. Um, when you're making an insurance claim or you're buying insurance, you're doing so to protect against something that you don't wanna happen. Generally, there's a, there's been an accident. There's been something that's gone wrong and, um, not having that person, not having a person to answer the phone or get back is actually really bad for insurance companies. Uh, not that it's not, not that it's not bad for everyone else, but, um, you know, especially at insurance, like these are the kinds of, of interactions. It was like, Hey man, like I had had one job and I called you and there wasn't, you know, it took me forever to get
Kerry Gross: (
In touch with one
Nathan Golia: (
Were. Yeah. And I think that, that's what I, that's sort of to what I was alluding to before about agents like insurers are redoubling those efforts to bring those employees, uh, in particular to, um, bring them back into the fold. Uh, the agents have handled a lot of that. Um, and, uh, you know, they need, they need those people in the community there to answer questions. Um, I'm curious as to how these, these percentages are these like similar percentages across other brand, uh, other, um, sorry against other industries that you noticed is always about that 25%.
Kerry Gross: (
Yeah, it was about the same. And this was, this was folks just say checking off where they're seeing higher rates of disparities, about the same, a little bit higher for front office roles and back office roles. When I think about, um, wealth management and banking, you know, their core functions, uh, really are our front office and back office technical computing roles was the highest in insurance, um, which I think is really interesting. And I really do see differences happening in the insurance industry, in that competition for tech talent.
Nathan Golia: (
Well, I think that that's, you know, that's, again, the function of the digital transformation that's happening, um, in the industry. Like they're looking for more of these roles, but they're competing with people who have, and in industries that have a more sort of robust or established, um, digital, digital practices and people are, you know, able to move on to the next thing in, uh, technical or computing roles and get that higher compensation or get that, uh, better, uh, you know, flexible working arrangement. Um, that's what insurers are competing with. Um, it, you know, it's not, it's not, uh, but their insurers do also want these roles and that's, I think that's what we're gonna see, like insurers know that they're gonna have to do, you know, a little bit more to, to attract and retain those technical roles. I do think the front office, uh, part of it though, it's, it's sort of like, um, you know, you gotta start, you gotta, you gotta have both of these roles.
Nathan Golia: (
Right. And, uh, insurers are just seeing like a lot of those, you know, because of the, uh, aging out there's, there's already a, I mean, they were talking about insurance jobs crisis for years leading up to the pandemic. Um, these were, these reports were going out, there was gonna be a, a big, um, Exodus, you know, just due to retirement or something, um, in these frontline and front office roles. So, uh, you know, I, I, I do wonder about the correlation between those roles and some of the other things to the right here. Um, you know, but those are, those are all, uh, calculus, that's all, those are all calculations. I should say that the insurance companies have to make on their own. Like, are we providing enough support to these employees who, who need it in order to retain them so that we can maintain a better, uh, customer experience,
Kerry Gross: (
Right? And it's starting with understanding the value of them to the business, right. And then making sure that they can make that case to the employees who are coming in. Mm-hmm , I'm, I'm curious to jump in more to the, the tech talent piece. I know that front office roles are really important, but the, the tech piece is kind of a new challenge for organizations. Um, and thinking about, we asked a question where are companies having trouble or keeping pace with hiring folks. Um, and, and what we see the gray percentage here is the percentage who say they're falling behind in hiring this talent, uh, in competition to whoever else is hiring this talent. Well, we see that 40% say they're falling behind in hiring tech or information architecture roles, 37% in it, or cybersecurity, and 36% in product development or product strategy. And these are vast, these are by far higher than any other industry. Most industries had more people say they're falling behind than leading the pack, but it was more like 25%. Um, and so really seeing that tech crunch happening more in insurance. And I'm really, I know you have your eyes on this, really? What are you surprised by here?
Nathan Golia: (
Well, I'm not surprised by it because again, we're talking about an industry that has a reputation or has a reputation for being a little bit slower to the, uh, punch here with digital transformation. Now, I think that the insurance industry is now long enough into the digital transformation era that, you know, what was, what things were like five or 10 years ago are, I can't really be used as an excuse now. I mean, you've known that this was gonna happen. Uh, if you're an, if you're an insurance carrier, you've done the small pilots you've done. And that's, I, I only get circled back to that point, but you, you you've seen that this is the direction. Things are gonna go, you know, that it's gonna require not just robust tech innovation, but also a, uh, recommitment to, uh, frontline employees and enabling them with digital, uh, tools.
Nathan Golia: (
Right. So you've got a lot of work to do. And that talking about the small pilot part is that also, um, you know, insurance companies looked at what I heard from, from carriers a few years ago is that they were looking at what had worked and not worked in other, in other, uh, industries that were transforming. And they had decided, and a lot of them had talked about the importance of being able to do small pilots. But of course, once you do small pilots, you wanna scale up the successors, the successful ones, right. And then you need to bring more people in. You need to be able to scale that up. And yeah, it's like it's insurance books of business are huge. I don't think people realize cuz you know, it sounds like a lot when you have, you know, let's say 500,000, uh, policy holders using, uh, usage based insurance or telematics or something. Yeah. But you might have a couple million policy holders. If you, if you this, you know, once you start digging into that market and, and that start penetrating that market, you need the support behind it and that's why you need to scale up. But I think that's why ensures again, this is all about their perception. They feel that they're falling behind because they want to do this. They wanna do this work. They wanna transform, they wanna scale up in advance all these things. And, uh,
Kerry Gross: (
And, and it seems like across all the industries that I'm seeing everyone, because there's such a crunch and because there's lots of, um, media around, you know, there is a shortage job shortage across the board. Most companies feel like they're falling behind in some way, or they're definitely not feeling that they're leading attracting talent. Uh, but it's really interesting to see the tech piece, um, playing out so high in insurers. And I'm curious, um, you know, we asked a question, I knew you were really interested in results from this question, thinking about who do you think are the biggest tech biggest competitors for tech talent? Again, then we asked, these are insurers saying, um, 57% say companies in the same industry are the biggest competitors for tech talent. And then about 30% saying big tech companies or financial services companies in adjacent industries. And I'm really curious, you know, does this match with who you see are the competitors for tech talent?
Nathan Golia: (
Well, I think that if you're talking about why is it your biggest competitors are companies in the same industry as us it's because if you have someone who's interested in working for insurance company and digital role, um, or you're hiring for like an insurance specific, uh, you know, front office role. Yeah. Your, your, your competitors are your, I'm sorry, your, uh, your, your, your, uh, prospects are coming in with an interest in insurance. Therefore they're more likely to jump to, you know, not jump to, or, or take other offers from other insurance companies. Um, and I think that, but I think that, I think one of the, this is, this is a, this is a, um, informative piece of our research, right? That shows that like, you know, the insurance companies think they're, they're competitive with each other. A lot of, a lot of, uh, what people say are about insurance is that, well, you know, these insurance companies, they don't realize that such and such a big tech company is just gonna come inate their lunch.
Nathan Golia: (
I mean, they've talked, we've heard a lot of noise in the past about Amazon insurance or Google insurance. Um, if you wanna call someone like Tesla, a big tech company, you can, um, but they're, they, you know, you could throw that in that 29%, but like what those companies, if they are to enter insurance or have a, a concern around insurance talent, it's not gonna be in the traditional insurance industry. And if people want, or, you know, are drawn to the, uh, traditional insurance industry. Yeah. They're gonna be, you know, looking towards different insurance companies to work for. So the, that, that, that 30, the 29% I'm rounding up to 30, I'm sorry, but I, I shouldn't really do that. That's OK.
Nathan Golia: (
But, um, uh, but you know, that you got about just a little under a third of people, um, who responded, who talk about these big tech companies and adjacent financial services companies. And I think that has a lot to do with also your, your self perception as an insurance company doesn't mean you're wrong to feel this way. Um, if you're like, you know, if you're a top 10, you know, maybe, or, you know, maybe even a top 20 insurance company, you might see yourself as a peer to other big banks and other big tech companies versus something like a smaller insurance carrier or agency. Uh, and therefore you are, you are showing up as the insurance company representative, um, in these, in these spaces where you're recruiting to the people who also have a choice to work for either big bank or a big tech company.
Nathan Golia: (
Um, and I think that's, you know, that that's, uh, sort of a, a question that, you know, does it need doesn't necessarily need to be resolved? I mean, if you're, you know, I, I often think about like the, you know, the.com bubble and how there was like the.com pet company and the.com like insurance company and the.com you know, this company and that company. Um, now everyone everyone's sort of on that, you know, we started to see that like companies judged by their, uh, um, sort of, uh, revenue level. Right. And, uh, you, you, what's the choice between like a big bank or a big insurance industry company. And we, and we'll, we'll, we'll interview people who have jumped from one to the other and, and ask them, you know, what, what what's, what's the texture, like, how do you feel different about working at this kind of company versus an insurance company?
Kerry Gross: (
Um, and is there a difference, do you think there's a difference between the skillset, like, when thinking about, you know, if someone's moving from one insurer to another insurer, is that different? Like is the skillset they have to learn from one insurer to another insurer that much smaller than it is from coming from a big tech, big tech company?
Nathan Golia: (
Um, I think, yeah, there's, it's a little bit easier if you understand insurance definitely, you know, to move from one to the other. I was thinking more about the financial services companies. We do see people moving from banks or retail to insurance, to big insurance companies. We've seen that the idea of like, we've gotta pull talent from these other industries so that they can advance us to the next level, but that happens at a different level of insurance, um, and a different level of, of employee, uh, you know, or, you know, frankly. So I did wanna point, I did wanna talk a little bit about, you know, come to competition, you know, among startups. Right. And see that that's at the bottom again. I think that a lot of the, uh, a lot of the conversation, because it is provocative is around like competition between, you know, insurers and big techs or insurers, and also the insurgency of the insured tech. But of course these are companies that are just starting out. They're not looking to build, you know, a couple hundred or even a thousand person strong, uh, digital team. They're starting with, you know, 5, 6, 7 people. So, and then maybe they're, you know, they're not, they're just not, um, a factor in the same way necessarily. We see, um, not, they're not that they're not a factor at all.
Kerry Gross: (
It's a different kind of work. It's a different kind of working environment. Right. If, if I'm interested in a smart up, then I'm,
Nathan Golia: (
Then I might not be
Kerry Gross: (
Interested in not necessarily yeah. In a big company. Yeah.
Nathan Golia: (
Because I mean, if you're talking, talking about like looking for stability and some of these other areas like compensation or benefits, um, you know, that might not be available at a brand new company. And I think it sort of shows where insurance companies see the competition happening. It's, it's, it's around those things and less about like whether or not people actually want to work for insurance.
Kerry Gross: (
Well, and I think that's interesting as a great segue into, you know, another question that we asked about attracting tech talent, um, you know, there are four strategies we wanted to check to see if companies are using, you know, leaning into their mission and appeal, um, focusing on work life balance, best salary and best benefits and flexible work arrangements. And we see as pretty similar, like leaning into those approaches. And so I, I think it'll be interesting if we think about these in conjunction with all of the, you know, thinking about recruiting all kinds of talent. Um, and these are the top seven strategies that companies are using, uh, in the insurance industry to attract to new talent. What we see, um, most commonly organ insurers are using flexible approach to work location, employee referral. Um, and then about a third are using either external recruiters or in-house return recruiters, and then signing bonuses, improving health insurance, and increasing compensation packages. And what I think is really interesting about this data, the insurance specific data in particular is that taking a flexible approach to work location 85% who are doing that say has been highly effective, highly or moderately effective in bringing in new talent. Um, and I'm curious, you know, what are your thoughts about both the previous slide in terms of methods to attract tech talent and then these sorts of overall strategies that insurers are using to bring in, uh, new talent? Well,
Nathan Golia: (
If we just stay here for one second, this 85% figure, did you, did you measure that across communities?
Kerry Gross: (
We did measure that across communities and we saw that flexible approach to work location and increase in compensation were the two most effective strategies, not the most commonly used, but a hundred percent, the most effective strategies.
Nathan Golia: (
Did you see that 85% say it had been like, I'm just curious if that was a, a bigger,
Kerry Gross: (
The 85% is a little bit bigger for insurance, uh, than other industries, but flexibility and the successfulness of increasing compensation across industries, where those are the number two most successful strategies.
Nathan Golia: (
Right. Well, I think that that sort of gets to what I was saying before that, um, you're not just hiring someone across the street. Like you might be in banking where all the banks are, you know, in a couple mile radius of each other, you know, it's not about hiring, you know, if you, if you're like, Hey, like I'm in this area and you live in this area, but we really want you to come here, you know, because we've seen what you've done at this insurance company, maybe you'd work for our insurance company, you know, be say, well, I'm just not in a position to want to move. Um, and I think that's why insurers have to take that flexible approach. Um, and I think that's why it's been so good if we could bump back to the previous one though. Yeah. I also have a question about the, this, the focus on company's mission and appeal, um, at 53%, I'm wondering how high that was for other,
Kerry Gross: (
So banks are leaning. Banks are higher. Banks are at like two thirds saying they're focusing on their mission and appeal and banks are not doing flexible work in any in a big way. That's not what they're leaning into. Um, but other industries like accounting, or just the general, we did, uh, you know, a general sample of, uh, industries in the us and leading into flexibility and salary are the sorts of things that other industries are doing. Um, so the mission and, um, appeal are things that's a little bit higher for insurance and higher for banking, which is interesting.
Nathan Golia: (
I'm honestly kind of surprised that, I mean, it's, it's good that this is over half I'm surprised it's not higher because when we just did our dig in, uh, tech talent track, that was the big thing people said, like, Hey, we wanna get out there that this is what insurance does that it helps people in their time of need. Um, and that it's a way to, you know, do positive work in people's lives. Um, and I heard that echoed throughout the conference, whenever we were talking to leaders about what they were saying or what appealed to them, like we talked about people jumping from retail and banking and these other industries into insurance. And often that the answer is like, you know, I wanted to work for an insurance company because I wanted to work on this mission of helping make people whole after a, after a crisis. Um, it's interesting that banks, uh, my guess is that banks have a sort of similar selling point in that they're like, Hey, we're keeping people's assets safe at a time of increased volatility and, and uncertainty. Um, and we're helping people.
Kerry Gross: (
But what we, what we found in conversation with the bankers is that it's, um, that might not be a mindset that's working well to bring people in parti in the banking space, particularly, you know, I think there's a different mindset around banking, um, in the younger generations they're trying to attract .
Nathan Golia: (
Well, I think it's funny too. It's like the way you said to that, it was way higher on this, on the left here for, uh, banks and then lower on the right, like, Hey, like we're trying to do great work here, but you gotta move to New York. , that's the deal, you know? Right.
Kerry Gross: (
Well then that's the deal, but
Nathan Golia: (
We're not being like
Kerry Gross: (
Flexible, right?
Nathan Golia: (
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And insurance companies have a little bit more because like I said, they've already had to, that that's baked into the insurance industry that it's gonna be, there's gonna be a flexible working arrangement. So,
Kerry Gross: (
Um, right. And that's speaking to this next slide where the flexible, I can't remember where banking sat in terms of taking a flexible work location, but, um, not definitely not higher than insurance might have been about equal with insurance, but seeing how, how much that really matters to the folks they're trying to hire in.
Nathan Golia: (
Yeah. And it's something that insurance companies can offer, uh, to differentiate if they need to find a way to differentiate, that's something they can do to offer. Cause they're not sitting on, you know, I mean, some of them are there definitely insurance companies in big cities and big, expensive buildings. I'm not saying there are, uh, but you know, there's not the pressure to, uh, bring everyone back into their very expensive building, you know, the same
Kerry Gross: (
Way. So yeah. And they're
Nathan Golia: (
Able to
Kerry Gross: (
Leverage downtown New York city.
Nathan Golia: (
Right. Right. They're able to leverage that as, as a way to say, like, Hey, you know, uh, it's easy for us. You know, it's also easy. I mean, we've more than a few insurance companies have, uh, sold, you know, some of their locations, um, off, because they're not gigantic big ticket purchases for other companies or other developers. So it's a little easier to move that real estate. So, um, I, I do think that mission he is, is going to be the thing that insurance companies need to focus on, um, in the future, because I do think they have the most compelling story there. Um, but I do also, I do also think that at some point money, uh, talks and, uh, that's what it's gonna, that's what it's gonna take.
Kerry Gross: (
Yeah, definitely. Um, and I think that's a great segue into, you know, the last set of data we have here so far, we've been talking about, you know, losing employees and attracting employees, but, you know, what's really the experience with inside these organization. What's it like to be an employee? Um, and we asked two questions just to the folks who responded to this survey, these people leaders, um, what their likelihood to work at their organization is, um, and their current job seeking status. And on the left hand side, this is a 10 point scale, just 38% say they were nine or 10 highly likely to recommend working at their organization and the right hand side, you know, we ask what their job seeking status is. And what we see is that 37% are a very open or actively looking for a new role. Um, and I'm, I'm curious and move into some more, you know, experiential data about what it's like to be in an organization. Um, we ask an agreement scale, um, you know, to what degree extent do you agree that your flexibility and work hours and location is available to all employees is, um, and more than 70% agree that their leadership model is a healthy work life balance work, healthy balance between work and life. Um, but just about 50% saying the pathways for career development are clear for all categories of employees. And I'm curious, um, Nate, you know, what's your reaction to these pieces of information about the satisfaction folks have with their roles at insurers?
Nathan Golia: (
I'd like to go back one slide, cause I do have a question. Yeah. 38% highly likely. How does that look across industries? Where
Kerry Gross: (
Does that? Not the same. Yeah. It's about the same everywhere. Yeah.
Nathan Golia: (
That's an interesting, that's an interesting, uh, where you see that. It's like, I think that when you're in, when you're like, oh, I'm an insurance, you know, I work at insurance or I work in, you know, my case media or something. It's like, oh, I, you know, I feel that every I'm internalizing everything, but there's just that sort of thing where it's like, yeah, you got 40% of people who really like their job. And you got you a little under 40% people there, you got a little under 40% of people who are like, yeah, I'm, I'm hopping off to the next thing. And I actually, if you think about, just think about five of your friends, you know, two people who really like their job and, you know, two people who are always looking for a new job that might, that might be, that's just how things are, that's how things shake out. And, uh, it's one of those things where it's like, you can't really do anything about that. There's not, there's the conditions aren't gonna be the same, no matter what you're, you're selling. Let's move up to the next one though.
Kerry Gross: (
Well, well, it's interesting to me and I'll move up to the next slide is, um, when banks, I, yeah. When I was showing this slide to, um, that slide about jumping to banks, they were like, well, our internal surveys, don't say that. And I think there's an interesting difference between sometimes what internal surveys say and what, you know, you'll say to your friend, right. It's like, I'm always searching or whatever. Yeah.
Nathan Golia: (
Right. Um, I think let's, let's look at here. So, uh, you know, the, the strongly agree and agree, I mean, agree is close enough to strongly agree. I think you've got like 70, almost 70% of people saying our leadership model, a healthy balances between work and life. Um, that I'm wondering how that compares to other people as well
Kerry Gross: (
About like the same, which I was surprised I expected. This is one of the things that I put in the survey to try to understand, you know, like, is there something that leadership needs to change about how they're leading to show that employees can be a whole person? And, and so I was encouraged to see this and it's about the same across industries.
Nathan Golia: (
Right. And I think that there's, uh, a little bit, um, maybe since the PA I, I would be interested. I wish we had, I wish we had the same survey from like five years ago or something. Cause I'd be definitely interested in seeing how that's changed over the past few years. Um, especially with the advent of flexible working where, you know, you know, I've, I've personally, I've, I've, uh, worked from home for almost, uh, 12 years now for quite a long time. Um, and the, the circumstances, you know, before I worked here at Verizon, I was working for a different company and they were just trying to downsize their, uh, their real estate. And they said, does anyone wanna work at home? And I said, Hey, I can save two hours a day off my commute. Yeah. I'll work at home. Um, you know, I had a new, I had a new kid at home and that was important to me to be able to save that extra time in my day.
Nathan Golia: (
And now that, that has become normalized across so many organizations. I mean, almost mean any organization had robust work at home for some period. I think that leadership has realized how important that is to, um, to have for, or, you know, some factions within any sort of, uh, company's leadership. I realized how important that is to, uh, the quality of life of your employees. Just that little bit of extra breathing room where you're not commuting, you know? Um, I do. I mean, I also, you know, having worked at, you know, worked at home and, and coming to the office at various times, I definitely have an opinion on, you know, how often, you know, how important it is to be in person and then be sharing, um, you know, be sharing, uh, ideas and working together at times. And, you know, it is finding that balance.
Nathan Golia: (
But I think that, uh, you know, I think people are the, the ability to just like once it's, once it's foreclosed for some time that you're not going to be coming to the office, you understand how important it's just have that little, extra time, little, extra peace of mind that comes from like, okay, I was, you know, I can toss this laundry in, I can run this errand in the morning before work. Um, you know, it doesn't necessarily mean that people are leaving or, or not working as much just means that they have that extra time back. And I think that's why I think that leadership has internalized that as well and is paying that forward. Uh, pathways for career development went a little bit short on time. Um, this is a little bit of a concerning part. I think for insurance companies, um, the insurance industry is changing. We talked about the, the crisis that was coming, which was that insurance expertise was aging out. And that, um, that what insurance needs to have expertise in was changing. And, um, that's changing sort of the internal picture of what a insurance career looks like, uh, for insurance companies. I don't know if this is the same for other financial services companies. I do see a higher, there's a, there's a lower rate of agreement and a higher rate of disagreement here. And, uh, I
Kerry Gross: (
Think that's so much. Yeah. And I think it's a, it's a great segue into, you know, we asked more specifics about what resources are available to people leaders. And this gets digs even more into that. pathways for development piece here. The dark green is those who say they have all the support they need, and this is pretty universal across all of the industries. We survey that fewer than one third, say they have all the support they need for clarity on, uh, employees' roles and objectives with regards to the larger organization guidance for how to Excel at the tactical elements of their job, resources, to establish and maintain a culture of belonging among employees, technology that provides a consistent employee experience, no matter work gets done. And then down at the bottom, we were just talking about career advancement opportunities for all employees, including a clear path for promotions, just 16% in insurance, um, saying that they have all the support they need for that, which is, I mean, that's pretty shocking.
Nathan Golia: (
And 33%, I guess that's some of the support, not now. It is the highest none. Um, saying some of the support is also one of those things where it's like, not everyone wants to just complain their job or run it down too. Um, you just, you see the, like you said, I guess maybe the low amounts of all the support here. Um, and I think that that's something that the insurance industry is working out. Um, there are new roles. There are, there, there are roles within insurance companies that did not exist 20 years ago, especially around things like data or managing, uh, certain kinds of technology. Um, those didn't exist and there's not a hundred years of infrastructure behind it. Like there is in underwriting just generally or the actuarial department or anything like that. And I think that that is, you know, uh, this is a function of, um, this is a function of digital transformation that, uh, that, that companies are establishing new roles and new workflow paths. Um, I'm just looking and think,
Kerry Gross: (
Yeah,
Nathan Golia: (
I wanna talk about technology that provides a consistent employee experience no matter where that work gets done. Um, it's interesting. That's a, that's, um, you know, a fairly sizeable chunk that have most, or all the support they need. And I think there's always, there's, there's a little bit of that temptation of like, do we have the right, we have the right zoom or whatever, you know, for lack of better team, which, and in most of those things, I think people are fine with it now. Um, so it's really just a matter of like, but it is a matter of like having that direction in your career.
Kerry Gross: (
Yeah. And I, I think if we go back to advancement opportunities, you know, the last question that we have to share with folks today is really about, um, you know, what routines or tools do they have. And we see, you know, these three really directly speak to that advancement piece. The black is the percent who says they have access to the light. Green is don't have access to, but need, and we see across all three of these management routines to track, highlight and reward top performers, you know, 31% saying they don't have what they need. Um, and then for mentorship programs, you see 44% saying they don't have mentorship programs for staff or for their own growth as a leader, and they want it to happen. And, and I see that directly paralleling with the advancement tracks.
Nathan Golia: (
Yeah. And, you know, around when we, when we, uh, do our women in insurance leadership, uh, packages, uh, you know, starting usually around this, this time, this summer is when we really talk about mentorship on a high level. And one of the things about it is that people do actually want, uh, people, the mentorship relationships are things that people don't forget, um, that we hear that we hear from, uh, you know, people about their own mentors and how they have, how they have tried to impart the, the, the lessons they learned to their, uh, to their proteges going down. Um, but a lot, but to think about other people that don't even enter one of those relationships in, in a formalized way, um, it's a, it's a missed opportunity. And, uh, I think that, you know, it needs to be sort of baked into every people leaders, uh, you know, every people leaders, job description that you're, you're, you want to identify high performing talent and mentor them and, and nurture them in the organization. That means that they also need to know what the clear paths are for promotion and, and, and, uh, what the career paths look like in their departments. Um, you know, all these things that they are important in order to retain talent, which I think is, you know, the major concern right now.
Kerry Gross: (
Definitely. Um, and I think that brings us, those are all the data I have to share with you. I don't know if you have closing marks, closing thoughts that you wanna share with everyone?
Nathan Golia: (
Uh, no. I mean, like I said, I thought this was, uh, I was definitely very, uh, interested in how, um, things looked, uh, relative to other industries. Um, and I was glad to see that insurance is, you know, not really an outlier in any negative, in any negative way, any more than any other industry is. Um, but yeah, I just wanted to say, thanks for coming in and sharing that with us and giving us a chance to look at it from the insurance, uh, from the insurance angle.
Kerry Gross: (
Ha happy to share. Yeah. Thanks for happy to be here.
Nathan Golia: (
Yep. And thanks so much for everyone for coming out. I'm Nathan Golia for digital insurance. Our next transformation form will be in July on ethical AI.